Cam Chain Tensioner Reset/Replacement?

[Timbollew]

Hello everyone,
 
I'm new to the forum had a look around a few times but just signed up for the first time.
 
I have FZS 600 '99, she's done about 32000 miles. I passed my big bike test about 2 weeks ago and loving the Fazer, just looking to look after her with some maintenance and hopefully she'll look after me.
 
My question is about the cam chain tensioner, from looking around I think I have a "sticky" tensioner as I'm getting a ticking noise from the engine. I'm thinking of taking a look at it this weekend but wondering how difficult is it to reset/replace the tensioner. I'm fairly competent when it comes to mechanics, no problem changing brake pads, adjusting chain, etc.
 
I have a Haynes manual which, I havn't checked yet for the tensioner but just hoping someone may have some little tips they want to pass on, I'd be more than grateful.
 
Cheers,
 
Tom 

[Dead Eye]

Unfortunately the tensioner is right slap bang in the middle of the block which means you have to remove the carbs to get at it which is relatively involved job - its not complicated, it just takes a while

I think it was darrsi who said they seemed to have picked out the tensioner, then built a bike around it :|

At 32k you might be getting to the end of the cam chains life (some have reported changing as early as 20k, others go on to 40 or 50k) so you may need to look in to a new cam chain - but obviously first of all check the tensioner. If you still have life left then you can try a couple of things to make it advance to the next notch such as removing the plugs and rolling the bike backwards in 1st, or going for a particularly spirited ride 

[Punkstig]

Never changed my cam chain or tensioner on the last fazer and that lasted 120,000 miles, they can take a while to click on to the next notch, just make sure you let her warm up before giving her any beanz!

[Timbollew]

Well I'm still riding the fazer and the ticking is still there. I'm starting to question whether it is the cam chain or something else. It's there constantly, doesn't go away when pulling clutch in for instance. It's related to engine as it speeds up or down with revs. May take it to a garage for a little check up but funds are tight at the moment. Anyone recommend a reliable mechanics in the Caerphilly/Cardiff area?

[Kentish]

Can you here this noise when riding the bike?
Dead Eye - Cam chain replacement at 20k. I don't think so. You should get more than 20k. I had a fazer with 160,000 on it. Never replaced a cam chain.

[darrsi]

Well I'm still riding the fazer and the ticking is still there. I'm starting to question whether it is the cam chain or something else. It's there constantly, doesn't go away when pulling clutch in for instance. It's related to engine as it speeds up or down with revs. May take it to a garage for a little check up but funds are tight at the moment. Anyone recommend a reliable mechanics in the Caerphilly/Cardiff area?

Post a video of the bike ticking over for us to hear, or look on YouTube for FZS600 cam chain rattle and compare sounds, it's quite a distinctive noise, like a sewing machine.

[Timbollew]

Kentish - yes I can hear it when I'm riding but obviously it's higher speed then.
I'll take a video at some post today and post a link later.

[marksfazer]

I found the easiest way to adjust/check the tensioner was:
Mine was only rattling when cold, the noise went when the engine was hot. If yours is rattling all the time then you may need a new chain or tensioner.
Undo carbs and slide back and lift them up, you should have enough room to get to the tensioner out. when i did mine i did not disconnect the throttler cables.
Undo and take out the centre bolt in the tensioner, be careful as there is a spring and ball bearing in there, then undo the 2 mounting hex bolts. The idea of removing the centre bolt first is so when you remove the tensioner you can see how many more clicks/teeth are still available.
I had about another 4 or 5 clicks remaining on my tensioner when i remove it.
Make sure you replace the gasket with a new one or some silicone gasket stuff, i also replaced the copper washer to make sure i had no possible oil leaks.
To refit i reset the tesioner, refitted the body but left out the centre bolt, i then put the bike in gear and turn the rear wheel backwards just by hand in order to put all the slack on the tensioner side, i then poked a screw driver down the centre bolt hole and pushed out the tensioner until it stopped. Do not push too hard.
I then refitted the centre bolt and refitted all the carbs, air filter, fuel tank etc etc.
Once i started my bike up it was quiet, and lasted all of about 200 miles before it started to rattle again .
I now live with it and should it start to rattle when hot then i will replace the chain.
This is how i adjusted mine, but i'm sure other people might have other suggestions.
 
This is all done at yourt own risk!!

Mark.

[Dead Eye]

Can you here this noise when riding the bike?
Dead Eye - Cam chain replacement at 20k. I don't think so. You should get more than 20k. I had a fazer with 160,000 on it. Never replaced a cam chain.

I know it seems odd, but just going off of what other people have quoted. Should get way more than 20k out of it, but it seemed worth mentioning just in case

[Timbollew]

Here's the vid on YouTube, not sure if you'll be able to hear it we'll enough. The vid was taken just after starting, but it's pretty much the same when warm.

[darrsi]

Sounds like cam chain to me, i had my chain changed around the 30K mark.
I'm on about 41K now and still get a a little noise on the colder days for a few minutes but once the oil's warm it totally goes away.
Wait for a few more opinions though.

[garyb]

Definetely sounds like the camchain to me also. I only replaced mine about a week ago, so the sound is very familiar to me.
Mine had 34k Miles on it and sounded exactly the same as yours does and was there regardless of whether the bike was cold or warm.
All is quiet now with the new chain installed.
Good luck with getting it sorted - plenty of helpful advice available round these parts if you intend to do yourself. Make sure you check the condition of CCT first though.

[Timbollew]

I think I'm gonna look at replacing the chain ten. Garyb  did you do yours yourself? I'm pretty handy with stuff, just takes me a while but I'm sure it's bound to save me a fair chunk on labour if I do it. Any recommendations on cam chains and where to get them?

[garyb]

I think I'm gonna look at replacing the chain ten. Garyb  did you do yours yourself? I'm pretty handy with stuff, just takes me a while but I'm sure it's bound to save me a fair chunk on labour if I do it. Any recommendations on cam chains and where to get them?

Yeah I did mine myself to save on costs as I was on a tight budget.

Re: getting a chain, you can try some of the suppliers mentioned on here by the guys like Wemoto or AJ Sutton, they didn't have any in stock when I tried but may have some in by now.

In the end I got one from John at JAWS motorcycles.

Gar

[Timbollew]

Hey starting up an old post here but only now I've got around to getting the carbs off so checked the CCT at the same time.

Straight away I noticed the bolt that holds the spring in place the back bolt, was loose undid it with my hand! Removed the CCT and 4 clicks left so I'm gonna reset it and see what happens. One concern though someone said there was a ball bearing in the tensioner, but mine just had the 2 springs?! Is that ok?

[unfazed]

There is some element of confusion with regards the Cam Chain tensioner.

The 600 tensioner because of its simple design rarely and I mean rarely gives trouble unless you are using poor quality oil or neglecting oil changes. The other reason it may give trouble is low usage and starting the bike for short periods when storing it, where rust can become an issue where the ratchet spring may break.

Rattles are either due to uneven chain wear or loose tappats or maybe a crank bearing, 99 times out of 100 the tensioner is doing its job correctly.
I have seen many people with fazers and thundercats replace tensioners when there is nothing wrong with them. I put a so called faulty  tensioner which was removed into the blue fazer 400 my eldest son had because the 600 ones are modified 400 ones to cope with the extra power. The modification being a stronger spring.  That bike is still going 5 years later, with over 30000km on the so called faulty tensioner.

Bikes with a hard life will wear the chain faster than one driven sedately. My chain was completely shot at 50000 mile and was one and a half links longer than the new one I replaced it with because it was living at the red line a lot from high speed road and track use.

The problem is that chains do not wear uniformly and the tensioner since it is a one way device will only click onto the next adjustments when the tighter part of the chain wears and until it clicks over it will rattle. If chains wore evenly there would never be an issue.

By all means check the tensioner and it is easy to check. You do not have to remove the carburetors just lift them up through the frame out of the way and saves the hassle of putting the throttle cables back on. (mentioned in a previous post here).
Remove the centre bolt and remove the springs undo the bolts holding on the tensioner. Take it off and be careful not to lose the ball bearing between the spring and the tensioner shaft. Reset the tensioner thus checking the ratchet spring in the process, oil it and put it back on with a new gasket if necessary torquing up the two bolts correctly. Replace the ball bearing, replace the springs and if you can hear the ratchet clicking as you push in the springs the tensioner is working. Replace the bolt and a new copper washer if you have one. Torque it up to the correct torque
Check the alignment of the cams with the T mark on the rotor. If the marks do not line up almost exactly then the chain is worn.
Rotate the rotor counter clockwise and line it up again check the alignment, do this a further 4 or 5 times. Since the cam run at half the speed of the crank you will be checking the alignment at different points of the chain.

[Timbollew]

I've had the tensioner off, looks fine ratchet works fine but as I said in the previous post there was no ball bearing so I think that there's not enough tension to put the pressure on the chain. I doubt I'll be able to get the ball bearing on it's own so I guess I'll have to buy a second hand one just to get the ball bearing. The numpty who had it before must have reset it and not put the bb in what order does the bb go in? Springs first then bb or bb then springs?

[unfazed]

The ball bearing is the same size as the ones used on the head stock as far as I can remember

[davidkent]

There's Ball bearing, 2 springs, then another ball bearing afaik - Had mine out twice this weekend already LOL

[darrsi]

There's Ball bearing, 2 springs, then another ball bearing afaik - Had mine out twice this weekend already LOL

Britney??? 

[davidkent]

There's Ball bearing, 2 springs, then another ball bearing afaik - Had mine out twice this weekend already LOL

Britney??? 

The best one, wasn't on my iPad so couldnt upload my own LOL

[Timbollew]

Gonna see if j can source some ball bearings tomorrow then. If I just get  2 ball bearings that fit in the top bolt but not too small do you think that will be ok, as I can't seem to find the bearings on their own.

[davidkent]

Can't see that being a problem. They can't go anywhere.

Surely you can get any ball bearings from anything if you can match the one you have up?

They look similarly sized to the ones in the clutch rod housing too though that's a guess as I don't have one to hand, I can't find my spare.

[unfazed]

Try a bicycle shop, I bought a box of 20 of them a few years ago for £2.50 when replacing headstock bearings.
they were the same size as the bearings on the bicycle cranks

[Timbollew]

Good shout unfazed I'll pop into one tomorrow.