Author Topic: Starting glitch (Read 4353 times)

ChristoT · « **on:** 16 July 2013, 09:33:23 pm »

I'm experiencing a weird glitch with my Fazer. If I ride it half a mile to the fuel station (or similar), leave it a few minutes, when I come back to it, the bike refuses to start in neutral - the engine turns over, but doesn't fire. When I kick it into first, however, it often starts straight away. Why!? Any ideas?

cfoley · « **Reply #1 on:** 16 July 2013, 10:30:41 pm »

I was about to ask if the side stand was down but that would have the opposite effect. Could it be something wrong with the side stand up-down sensor?

ChristoT · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 July 2013, 10:33:12 pm »

Quote from: cfoley on 16 July 2013, 10:30:41 pm

I was about to ask if the side stand was down but that would have the opposite effect. Could it be something wrong with the side stand up-down sensor?

I thought that - but why would it only refuse to start in neutral when the engine is warm? Starting cold isn't a problem at all.

Am well confused!! $:\$

cfoley · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 July 2013, 10:53:01 pm »

Starting in first gear means you have the clutch pulled in. Does it start in neutral with the clutch in?

In a car, that could be the sign of a flooded engine. Don't know if that applies to a bike.

ChristoT · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 July 2013, 11:04:27 pm »

Quote from: cfoley on 16 July 2013, 10:53:01 pm

Starting in first gear means you have the clutch pulled in. Does it start in neutral with the clutch in?

In a car, that could be the sign of a flooded engine. Don't know if that applies to a bike.

No - if the neutral light is on, the bike doesn't like to start. Sometimes, it needs the clutch barely disengaged to kick in to life - it's very strange! It's always after a short spin (under 10mins) when the bike's been off for a few minutes. Cold, or just switched off is fine. It's a mystery!!

ChristoT · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 July 2013, 11:07:06 pm »

I don't know if this makes a difference, but my usual shut down procedure is kill switch, ignition off. Starting, it's kill switch, ignition on, starter. And never more than 10 second bursts at a time (normally starts under a second) - 5s bursts usually.

Dead Eye · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 July 2013, 11:20:33 pm »

Are you saying that you are killing the engine with the kill switch every time you stop?

As far as I'm aware that's a big no no. You should turn the ignition off first, then if you must, hit the killswitch and then deploy the side stand or get off and put on to the side stand / centre stand

ChristoT · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 July 2013, 11:24:23 pm »

Quote from: Dead Eye on 16 July 2013, 11:20:33 pm

Are you saying that you are killing the engine with the kill switch every time you stop?

As far as I'm aware that's a big no no. You should turn the ignition off first, then if you must, hit the killswitch and then deploy the side stand or get off and put on to the side stand / centre stand

Mostly. But I can't see why it's a no-no (apart from wearing out the switch), as it does the same as the ignition. I can't see how that would be linked to the neutral problem though? Surely then it would affect the bike in all gears?

cfoley · « **Reply #8 on:** 16 July 2013, 11:41:19 pm »

I have never used the killswitch on my bike. Come to think of it, I don't even know if it works. :S

Dead Eye · « **Reply #9 on:** 17 July 2013, 08:18:15 am »

Quote from: ChristoT on 16 July 2013, 11:24:23 pm

Quote from: Dead Eye on 16 July 2013, 11:20:33 pm
Are you saying that you are killing the engine with the kill switch every time you stop?

As far as I'm aware that's a big no no. You should turn the ignition off first, then if you must, hit the killswitch and then deploy the side stand or get off and put on to the side stand / centre stand

Mostly. But I can't see why it's a no-no (apart from wearing out the switch), as it does the same as the ignition. I can't see how that would be linked to the neutral problem though? Surely then it would affect the bike in all gears?

I have no idea, it's just something that I have picked up from somewhere but I have no idea as to whether its accurate

There are several other threads where people have had intermittent starting issues and the have described your problem exactly

simonm · « **Reply #10 on:** 17 July 2013, 09:00:30 am »

I stop with front brake, clutch in, right foot down.
I then select neutral, put down the side stand, rest on stand and turn off ignition.
Right or wrong ?

Dead Eye · « **Reply #11 on:** 17 July 2013, 09:33:19 am »

Almost right until the last bit. Should switch off the engine before putting the side stand down

This is what I was taught by the riding school, not just some random figment of my imagination as above :P

Punkstig · « **Reply #12 on:** 17 July 2013, 09:37:11 am »

Quote from: Dead Eye on 17 July 2013, 09:33:19 am

Almost right until the last bit. Should switch off the engine before putting the side stand down This is what I was taught by the riding school, not just some random figment of my imagination as above :P

Because its very easy to accidentally knock into first gear whilst attempting to put side stand down, hence switch off engine first otherwise she pops forward!

Dead Eye · « **Reply #13 on:** 17 July 2013, 09:38:24 am »

Precisely the reason the instructors gave

simonm · « **Reply #14 on:** 17 July 2013, 09:55:56 am »

Quote from: Punkstig on 17 July 2013, 09:37:11 am

Quote from: Dead Eye on 17 July 2013, 09:33:19 am
Almost right until the last bit. Should switch off the engine before putting the side stand down This is what I was taught by the riding school, not just some random figment of my imagination as above :P
Because its very easy to accidentally knock into first gear whilst attempting to put side stand down, hence switch off engine first otherwise she pops forward!

Thanks for the explanation :-)

Hedgetrimmer · « **Reply #15 on:** 17 July 2013, 10:56:49 am »

I'm no mechanic, but I wonder if this is a clutch switch problem?

Andy FZS · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 July 2013, 12:50:03 pm »

I'd have to check but I fairly sure side stand clutch switch etc stop the starter motor but I think the kill switch just stops it running. I'll try it later.

Dead Eye · « **Reply #17 on:** 17 July 2013, 01:11:00 pm »

How could the clutch switch cause this? I had an issue with mine whereby pulling in the clutch still wouldn't let me start in gear. Ended up taking a stanley blade to it and cut a bit off the end of the plastic nubbin bit and now it works perfectly

With the clutch out and in gear, it won't start but pull in the clutch and away it goes - I was expecting the first part to fail and for it to just permanently think that the clutch was pulled in - something I could live with if I had to, so this was a good result for an extreme measure

simonm · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 July 2013, 09:48:22 am »

Quote from: Dead Eye on 17 July 2013, 01:11:00 pm

How could the clutch switch cause this? I had an issue with mine whereby pulling in the clutch still wouldn't let me start in gear. Ended up taking a stanley blade to it and cut a bit off the end of the plastic nubbin bit and now it works perfectly With the clutch out and in gear, it won't start but pull in the clutch and away it goes - I was expecting the first part to fail and for it to just permanently think that the clutch was pulled in - something I could live with if I had to, so this was a good result for an extreme measure

Mine won't start unless it's in neutral which is an arse if you stall it in first. I suppose the solution is not to stall

Dead Eye · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 July 2013, 10:25:49 am »

In that case, do what I did! I had the same fault

Use a stanley knife or some side cutters and just snip off a bit of the end of the black plastic lug on the switch

Mine now works perfectly

simonm · « **Reply #20 on:** 18 July 2013, 10:28:16 am »

Quote from: Dead Eye on 18 July 2013, 10:25:49 am

In that case, do what I did! I had the same fault

Use a stanley knife or some side cutters and just snip off a bit of the end of the black plastic lug on the switch Mine now works perfectly

Fault or feature ?

Dead Eye · « **Reply #21 on:** 18 July 2013, 11:33:42 am »

It's a fault... you should be able to start the bike in any gear as long as the clutch is pulled in

CharlieDee · « **Reply #22 on:** 22 July 2013, 07:11:13 pm »

Christo

have you checked the valve clearances?

Charlie

simonm · « **Reply #23 on:** 22 July 2013, 07:13:48 pm »

Quote from: Dead Eye on 18 July 2013, 10:25:49 am

In that case, do what I did! I had the same fault

Use a stanley knife or some side cutters and just snip off a bit of the end of the black plastic lug on the switch Mine now works perfectly

Which switch pls ?

ChristoT · « **Reply #24 on:** 22 July 2013, 07:29:32 pm »

Quote from: CharlieDee on 22 July 2013, 07:11:13 pm

Christo

have you checked the valve clearances?

Charlie

No. But, the bike is only on 28,000 miles, and I have no problems starting cold, or any other problem that would suggest valves.

I also fail to understand how the gearbox would affect the valves? The only thing I can think of is that it puts a slight load on the engine. But why would it want a load? I'm thorougly baffled...