Author Topic: Is this clutch basket a basket case (Read 4457 times)

gra0411 · « **on:** 14 July 2013, 01:09:37 pm »

Re previous post of vibration and whine too k this picture of clutch basket , I've not done many clutches over the years but this does not seem right , am I wrong is this normal ? If it isn't WTF caused this ? Also when clutch push rod went back in from sprocket side it reached end if travel and felt harsh like there was broken metal at the end on the side and was catching on something
Help please !!

Hedgetrimmer · « **Reply #1 on:** 14 July 2013, 03:16:45 pm »

Not sure quite what to look for - picture maybe too close-up?

Dead Eye · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 July 2013, 09:04:58 am »

Agreed, what are you referring to in the picture? I can't see anything obviously wrong which is a good sign

With the pushrod, there is supposed to be a ball bearing at the end so that's probably what you could feel

gra0411 · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 July 2013, 11:53:49 am »

The side of the basket is scored badly and I can't see why it would be that way ,the rest of it is smooth casting and although the only clutch I've done before was a stroker years ago I don't remember it like that , sounds like I was hoping that was what's wrong and then simple fix , the picture maybe doesn't do it justice how scored it is I've attached a couple more pics in the hope it shows up better . My thoughts were as it is a rotating part it must be balanced otherwise vibration would occur ( am I wrong in this thought ) and this may be causing the excessive vibration , also when the pushrods goes in it is catching on the side like a burred edge and it feels line there is grit rubbing it ( it feels abrasive and you can hear the scraping surely as the ball bearing is at the end of the rod it would contact it at the end . Although clutch works ok low speed it's very jerky and quite clunky on release .

Hedgetrimmer · « **Reply #4 on:** 15 July 2013, 12:10:37 pm »

Hmmm. That's got me stumped. On the first photo it just looked like a machined surface from the factory, but second pic... that's a puzzle. Now looks way too deep and uneven to be that. Strange also how where the "fingers" (yeah I know, crap terminology!) that the clutch plate tabs slide up between don't seem to be marked similarly where they join with the main casing. $:\$

gra0411 · « **Reply #5 on:** 15 July 2013, 01:09:50 pm »

That sort of confirms that it didn't look right , think I need to dismantle clutch , need torque wrench hence reason I didn't do it yesterday .
Wouldn't mind any ideas as to cause though , it's got to have grinded against something ? Don't want to replace basket and same thing happens

CRH · « **Reply #6 on:** 15 July 2013, 01:29:38 pm »

any signs of anything inside casing? how long you had bike?

CRH · « **Reply #7 on:** 15 July 2013, 01:38:44 pm »

soz just read you first post!!....the clutch housing looks slightly offset to the ring gear where all the scoring is,ie closer!!...or is me eye bent??

gra0411 · « **Reply #8 on:** 15 July 2013, 01:42:14 pm »

Here's a different pic if it helps answer that , also nothing found in casing but would that not be in sump by now ?

CRH · « **Reply #9 on:** 15 July 2013, 01:49:05 pm »

yes you would have thought so?...did you replace the original casing and if so was there any telltale signs on the inside of where it could have touched?...

gra0411 · « **Reply #10 on:** 15 July 2013, 01:55:25 pm »

All original casing and no marks on inside , odd thing engine still runs , changes gear Etc but until I get this solved its not going anywhere , seems the other pic I've got wont come up so I will try again, thanks for all your input it is very appreciated

CRH · « **Reply #11 on:** 15 July 2013, 02:09:38 pm »

you could try taking cover off and spinning engine over(with plug caps off)...to see if its running true? i think any wobble etc would mabe be causing your vibes?...could poss have bent the crank? if it was such a heavy fall..

gra0411 · « **Reply #12 on:** 15 July 2013, 02:30:30 pm »

I think you are right , I was a bit worried about doing that yesterday and put casing on and looked in with oil cap off and it seemed like it was I bit off , also did notice that when clutch pulled in only top 2 plates moved out , didn't know if that was normal . I had thought about bent crank but everyone I knew all said it was more than unlikely so I discounted it . Seems as if the best option may be another motor as the cost of a mechanic would be more expensive I would think as a rebuild is beyond my limited knowledge

Hedgetrimmer · « **Reply #13 on:** 15 July 2013, 02:34:32 pm »

It puzzles me what on earth could cause such marking consistently across the whole face of the basket like that - I can't think that it would be something on the inside of the cover, if it was something loose inside the cover you'd think it would gouge here and there (before perhaps causing catastrophic failure) - and again, just on the casing face itself. Maybe it's something a previous owner has tried to do? (tho' god knows what...). If you're not going to keep that motor, I would suggest taking the clutch off and taking it to a reputable mechanic just for an opinion on what caused it?

CRH · « **Reply #14 on:** 15 July 2013, 02:48:00 pm »

the reason i mention a bent crank is,years ago a mate of mine had a z900 and after a heavy fall and after replacing all relevant covers etc had very bad vibration that nobody could find!!...untill one day this old guy who used to repair old brits said to him?...think your cranks bent matey..and it was!!

worth checking anyway?...and like nick says its odd thers no signs of damage inside cover unless it was due to previous owner??

gra0411 · « **Reply #15 on:** 15 July 2013, 02:53:41 pm »

I checked all round and there's nothing I could see or think of that would have caused that , I too thought the previous owner thought but then thought why would you and was stumped at that , although with the speed it rotates it would only take some item ( stumped as what ) to be wedged under bottom of basket for a short while to do it but seems a but far fetched . Don't know if this is related but when the vibration started gear changes were so hard I had a bruised foot and most times it didn't select and took another go for it to select on up changes but then I changed the oil and that improved a lot , still tough but better , hang on though on bottom of inside casing under basket to right there is no paint just metal silver I thought it was how it is but now maybe something was there , I'm going now to see and post a pic
Thanks

gra0411 · « **Reply #16 on:** 15 July 2013, 03:16:10 pm »

Ok took off plugs and spun over with case off and clutch visibly off centre when rotated , casing paint worn down under oil pump drive gear (see pic ) but can't see any wearing in side of casing where basket is closest , also all seems tight no excessive play in anything behind casing .

CRH · « **Reply #17 on:** 15 July 2013, 04:18:47 pm »

yea looks clean doesnt it?...think if it was me i would remove the clutch and make sure nothings lurking about in or behind?..you may as well now you got cover off!!...not looking good is it?

....

Ebme Geek · « **Reply #18 on:** 15 July 2013, 04:29:15 pm »

I see nothing scarey here ...
Those marks on the basket look like the normal machining marks, see pic I found on fleabay. I would be surprised if the basket had got warped or anything like that, and the inner part is a floating spring loaded assembly so can all be a bit deceptive on how true it is all running. The bare patch on the casing, I have seen bits like this before, can't explain this one but would guess a bit of post-cast machining, would not worry about it - loads of clearance there. But if you could put up a video of the bits spinning, sure people will put up thier views..

Do you get the vibes if you rev it up in neutral to the same as when you get them riding ? (with the clutch released, if so what when pulled in ? and then in gear pulled in and stationary ?) You may then look other than engine internals ????

Looking at your other thread, I know you say the chain has not done much graft, but it has sat around a long time, and it makes me wonder about sticky links.
Look at your chain spinning the back wheel slowly on center stand and make sure it comes off the front sproket smoothly with no kinked links.

But I may be barking up the wrong tree, hard to know without seeing/feeling in person. Hope this helps and don't cloud

gra0411 · « **Reply #19 on:** 15 July 2013, 04:48:14 pm »

Chain is a bit sticky and does have a bit of noise but I took chain off sprocket and run engine in gear to check and whine is still there but in 4th 5th 6th getting louder in each gear progressively . Vibration is not very noticeable in neutral or clutch pulled in, got road pilot 2 rubber and found them a bit noisy as tried to eliminate most other ideas before pulling casings off etc , that's why originally I suspected gearbox as its worse in higher gears and could not think of any reason why this would happen .
Tried looking at pictures of basket in manual but they are not clear as to the state of mine being normal re the clean patch on the inside under oil pump gear I thought that is prob oil flow wear as it is smooth .
Ill check the bay of fleas for pictures that might look in similar state to compare
Then probably remove clutch just to be on safe side as I know something not right and concerned as to seizure while riding
Thanks

gra0411 · « **Reply #20 on:** 15 July 2013, 04:51:40 pm »

Just seen the picture ( didn't show as I was posting reply ) and you were right it does look the same really confused now as dont want to remove clutch unless I have to

CRH · « **Reply #21 on:** 15 July 2013, 04:53:14 pm »

...like ebme says if you could show a vid of it you would get some more input into whats going on?...but as regards the marks"...ive had a look at mine through the filler and cant see any on mine ?...also when running looks ok and true!!...there must be a clutch genius on here surely??...come on ..red 98 wheret art thou!!....even old" ade the blade"...must be lurking

....somewhere!!!!!

Ebme Geek · « **Reply #22 on:** 15 July 2013, 05:17:06 pm »

If there was no real vibes with the chain off and going up through the gears, I think you have your answer.

The gearbox basically has straight cut gears it's going to whine, and as the output shaft gets faster up the gears the speed the teeth wipe each other goes up.

Maybe because of the vibration you have got a bit sensative, I know it can play on the mind, I am going with sort that chain at the moment

PS - make sure that sproket is tight, and see if it's got the modified nut

gra0411 · « **Reply #23 on:** 15 July 2013, 05:27:44 pm »

Looked on flea bay most pics as I'm on a phone don't show any conclusive answer either way , sprocket nut tight and tab still on , don't know if you saw old post re nut but had chain and sprocks fitted lots of years but not many miles ago and nut come off on way back from shop and I got new nut /tab from dealer but it not me being sensitive it a progressive worsening problem , ie noise louder and vibration getting worse and makes fingers go numb after 30 mins riding , foot peg loosens about every 50 miles even with thread lock ( chain side) and I've done 15k miles on this bike over 8 years its not something I noticed in the past , I wondered if output shaft focced after nut come off also when got bike years ago chain was well tight ( don't know how long for)

gra0411 · « **Reply #24 on:** 15 July 2013, 05:31:15 pm »

Sorry should have said wasn't sat on bike with chain off and that was when whine started and vibes was minimal , now whine and vibes worse , will have to do that again to double check