How do I make my 600 fazer faster?????

[JoshVaughan]

Fzr 600 cams are exactly the same in every way appart from the power peak its more violent than the fazer so a straight swap of cams should give me a nice powerfull kick

[ChristoT]

Fzr 600 cams are exactly the same in every way appart from the power peak its more violent than the fazer so a straight swap of cams should give me a nice powerfull kick

A kick, OK, will it improve max power though?

How would the FZR cams fit on? And what about piston clearence?

[wezdavo]

Simple answer to the original question - trade it for a gen 1 thou 
Seriously though, what gave you the idea to go for high lift cams? Curious.

Out of curiosity - what would that actually do?

Put more air and fuel into the cylinder...
I think it all depends on what op means by faster?
 
Faster in a straight line? if so your buggered without throwing big money at it, in which case you will be better off with a different bike..
 
Faster to ride? This can be cured with better suspension and brakes and of course practice..

[JoshVaughan]

The difference would be in the aggresive clime of the revs compared to the standard fazer's, the fzr 600 cams are made so the vaulves open and close quicker there for increasing the way the power would climb instead of the fazers smooth power but ive never seen anyone attempt it but they do fit cause ive got a set of fzr cams and they fit fine but i dont want to put them in without knowing what im getting into

[Hedgetrimmer]

From what I can gather, the idea is to increase fuel flow to the combustion chamber. This can be done via camshafts either by increasing lift of, or by increasing the duration of opening of the intake valves. But there are some things to be careful of. You must have sufficient valve to piston clearance for the lift you wish to achieve. If you take 2 cams with identical duration but one has higher lift, the valves on the high lift example will open more rapidly. This is desirable as you should strive for the nearest to instantaneous opening that you can achieve (actual instantaneous is impossible). However, at extremes it can result in valve bounce, where the valve is effectively propelled by the speed of opening rather than following the cam profile. To counter this, you could use heavy duty valve springs which would give more control over how the valves open. I think maybe high lift cams would also make the engine more peaky? (i.e. less torque/mid range but more top end revvy). That's about as far as my understanding goes, and I'd be interested to hear from someone who really knows what they are talking about!

[wezdavo]

The difference would be in the aggresive clime of the revs compared to the standard fazer's, the fzr 600 cams are made so the vaulves open and close quicker there for increasing the way the power would climb instead of the fazers smooth power but ive never seen anyone attempt it but they do fit cause ive got a set of fzr cams and they fit fine but i dont want to put them in without knowing what im getting into

Is this aggressive power curve you speak of not the characteristic  of the exup valve??

[Hedgetrimmer]

The difference would be in the aggresive clime of the revs compared to the standard fazer's, the fzr 600 cams are made so the vaulves open and close quicker there for increasing the way the power would climb instead of the fazers smooth power but ive never seen anyone attempt it but they do fit cause ive got a set of fzr cams and they fit fine but i dont want to put them in without knowing what im getting into

Be careful, your cylinder head and cam caps are machined together for very close tolerances, and must be carefully matched for the cams.

[Lazarus]

Hi All,
I think the above says it all. My bike is 100% standard and I was looking for some good ideas.
Ta Danny

simples......paint it blue

[mr self destruct]

I think maybe high lift cams would also make the engine more peaky? (i.e. less torque/mid range but more top end revvy). That's about as far as my understanding goes, and I'd be interested to hear from someone who really knows what they are talking about!

A higher lift but equal duration cam gives engines more low end torque, as a rule it's the duration and overlap that give an engine more top end power.


A good explanation is here:
http://www.streetracersonline.com/articles/camshafts/

Something to note though, is with higher duration cams there's more valve overlap, which is why engines with cams like that run like shit at low rpm.

Although the rules on overlap on the site change with forced induction; you don't need as much because the turbo or supercharger is forcing the mixture in, so can minimise it at low rpm.

[darrsi]

Swap every nut, bolt, and part, like for like, with an R1.
You should find a huge difference in seating position, acceleration, and general all round oomph.


NEXT WEEKS QUESTION:


How can i make my bike slower?


Answer: Buy a car.......sorted 

[stevierst]

I used to do quite a bit of engine tuning in my younger years, swapping cams, porting heads, bigger carbs etc....... It rarely makes the bike "better" for the road, peaky power delivery, boggy at the lower end, stupidly high tickover that's lumpy as fook, nightmare to ride in traffic. Overheating, unreliability, the list goes on.
You'll gain a little power by cams/head tuning, but won't necessarily make the bike faster. The best tuning you can do, is get the suspension sorted, then some advanced training, or track tuition. THEN it'll be a lot quicker! You watch a good rider on a 400 hit the twisties, he don't need massive power, just big skill!

[darrsi]

I used to do quite a bit of engine tuning in my younger years, swapping cams, porting heads, bigger carbs etc....... It rarely makes the bike "better" for the road, peaky power delivery, boggy at the lower end, stupidly high tickover that's lumpy as fook, nightmare to ride in traffic. Overheating, unreliability, the list goes on.
You'll gain a little power by cams/head tuning, but won't necessarily make the bike faster. The best tuning you can do, is get the suspension sorted, then some advanced training, or track tuition. THEN it'll be a lot quicker! You watch a good rider on a 400 hit the twisties, he don't need massive power, just big skill!

James May experimenting with the FS1 (Fizzy) is a perfect example 
Bikes are made by boffins after years of modifying and getting things just right.
Admittedly some materials used in construction are questionable, like exhausts, sprocket nuts and headlights, but the bike as a whole is well engineered, reliable and fun, and probably at it's peak state of performance 90% of the time off the shelf from new!
If you want a quicker bike, buy a quicker bike......it ain't rocket science!

[darrsi]

Or buy a rocket......but according to "Fuelly" their fuel consumption is pants!

[Chris]

fit a turbo....
 
Seriously though, without spending big money and then having to spend more upgrading suspension etc then it's really not worth it. Small gains can be had, as mentioned already, by k&n air filter and a decent exhaust but the bhp gain is tiny, a few bhp at best. After said mods my bike definately rides smoother and seems to pick up speed better but that may all be in my head and because it sounds nicer then it feels faster...
 
Spend your money on a few track days/tuition or on a bigger/faster bike.
 
Chris

[Hedgetrimmer]

I used to do quite a bit of engine tuning in my younger years, swapping cams, porting heads, bigger carbs etc....... It rarely makes the bike "better" for the road, peaky power delivery, boggy at the lower end, stupidly high tickover that's lumpy as fook, nightmare to ride in traffic. Overheating, unreliability, the list goes on.
You'll gain a little power by cams/head tuning, but won't necessarily make the bike faster. The best tuning you can do, is get the suspension sorted, then some advanced training, or track tuition. THEN it'll be a lot quicker! You watch a good rider on a 400 hit the twisties, he don't need massive power, just big skill!

 
Yeah, that follows everything I used to read on the subject - conventionally high-tuned engines don't run very well low down - however I once rode a Z1R that had been heavily breathed on by John Carpenter (legendary Kawasaki tuner of Mistrals fame), and that thing was rapid! Also it didn't seem to be too bad low down, and idled ok.
I wonder if a decent carbs/exhaust route (maybe flat slides or just larger carbs with necessary mods elsewhere) might not be a better way to go?
I used to read loads on this tuning subject, but I was younger then and didn't really understand half of it, and I've probably forgotten most of the rest!
 

I think maybe high lift cams would also make the engine more peaky? (i.e. less torque/mid range but more top end revvy). That's about as far as my understanding goes, and I'd be interested to hear from someone who really knows what they are talking about!

A higher lift but equal duration cam gives engines more low end torque, as a rule it's the duration and overlap that give an engine more top end power.


A good explanation is here:
http://www.streetracersonline.com/articles/camshafts/

Something to note though, is with higher duration cams there's more valve overlap, which is why engines with cams like that run like shit at low rpm.

Although the rules on overlap on the site change with forced induction; you don't need as much because the turbo or supercharger is forcing the mixture in, so can minimise it at low rpm.

Haven't looked at your link yet, but will when I have more time. I read that high lift cams work better with forced induction. Is this just an obvious thing or are there particular reasons for that?
 
 
 
 

[unfazed]

Fit a FZS1000 engine

[Hedgetrimmer]

Fit a FZS1000 engine

Then put a blower on it and some nitrous. Then, if you wind up in hospital cos it was all too much you can have a laugh with the nitrous still 

[marksfazer]

Buy a red one, they are always faster than the others 

[Hedgetrimmer]

fit a turbo....
 
Seriously though, without spending big money and then having to spend more upgrading suspension etc then it's really not worth it. Small gains can be had, as mentioned already, by k&n air filter and a decent exhaust but the bhp gain is tiny, a few bhp at best. After said mods my bike definately rides smoother and seems to pick up speed better but that may all be in my head and because it sounds nicer then it feels faster...
 
Spend your money on a few track days/tuition or on a bigger/faster bike.
 
Chris

I would only say that it would be worth it if you're really in to tuning and have mega bucks to throw at it! This tuning game is all very addictive. Once you change the cams, you'll find out, well this mod would make that one work better, and then, well, I need to do this mod to make that right, and then....! But if it's your only bike, then getting a faster bike in the first place is the best way to go. I agree with all the comments that the manufacturers spend a lot of money getting their bikes right, and few if anyone else can do as good a job as they do.
If sheer speed is your thing, get into drag racing. £££££££££££££!!

[red98]

Buy a red one, they are always faster than the others 

ohhhhhhhhhhh...at last.......the first sensible answer.

[Hedgetrimmer]

Buy a red one, they are always faster than the others 

ohhhhhhhhhhh...at last.......the first sensible answer.

So are you saying you bought a slow gen 1 thou? 

[red98]

Buy a red one, they are always faster than the others 

ohhhhhhhhhhh...at last.......the first sensible answer.

So are you saying you bought a slow gen 1 thou? 

oh dear another[size=78%] foccer who dos`nt know the rules.....i have explained this more than once[/size] [/size][size=78%],if you have a 600 then RED is the fastest colour .....the rules change with the 1000 due to the extra capacity...silver being the fastest for the thou.......as for all you yellow foccers....you have the slowest bikes as yellow is the colour of custard and i have never seen a serving of apple crumble and custard at speed..........simples [/size]

[mr self destruct]

Haven't looked at your link yet, but will when I have more time. I read that high lift cams work better with forced induction. Is this just an obvious thing or are there particular reasons for that?

Less overlap between inlet and exhaust valves mate.
I know on a classic VW Beetle engine the angle between the inlet and exhaust lobes are 108 degrees, but with a turbo spec cam they're 112 to separate the timing a bit and reduce overlap.
They do loads of performance cams for those cars ranging from mild street with high lift but limited duration (particularly for campers), to all out race with loads of both.

[Hedgetrimmer]

Buy a red one, they are always faster than the others 

ohhhhhhhhhhh...at last.......the first sensible answer.

So are you saying you bought a slow gen 1 thou? 

oh dear another[size=78%] foccer who dos`nt know the rules.....i have explained this more than once[/size] [size=78%],if you have a 600 then RED is the fastest colour .....the rules change with the 1000 due to the extra capacity...silver being the fastest for the thou.......as for all you yellow foccers....you have the slowest bikes as yellow is the colour of custard and i have never seen a serving of apple crumble and custard at speed..........simples [/size]

You've never seen me eat apple crumble and custard then - can I have another helping please...

[red98]

Buy a red one, they are always faster than the others 

ohhhhhhhhhhh...at last.......the first sensible answer.

So are you saying you bought a slow gen 1 thou? 

oh dear another[size=78%] foccer who dos`nt know the rules.....i have explained this more than once[/size] [size=78%],if you have a 600 then RED is the fastest colour .....the rules change with the 1000 due to the extra capacity...silver being the fastest for the thou.......as for all you yellow foccers....you have the slowest bikes as yellow is the colour of custard and i have never seen a serving of apple crumble and custard at speed..........simples [/size]

You've never seen me eat apple crumble and custard then - can I have another helping please...