A question of respect (let the flaming begin...)

[simonm]

as for the original post, the cop may have been on "silent approach" and as said by others, your lack of mirrors has contributed to the car having to break (something BTW that pisses me off when cars do it to me and cut me up...........don't think they've ever heard of the 2 second rule!)
treat others as you'd like to be treated yourself and you wont go far wrong in life, you'll always get some numpty but they tend to be a minority in all walks of life, a simple "sorry officer, I just misjudged your speed" would probably have placated him/her. Been pulled a few times in the car and being polite has paid off, got done once in a works van, coned lane for workmen but no one working and doing 40 in a 30; car ahead was going away from me put never got stopped, lad was writing the ticket before I'd stopped the van.............he must have had a score to settle with white van man!!
BTW, the bike cops on my course are really good and know their stuff

my lack of mirrors ?  What an insane thing to say.  I described the situation, in order to do so I must have looked in my mirrors in order to recount it.  I don't exactly agree with your perspective, but that doesn't really matter.  I checked my mirrors, indicated, pulled out and cancelled my indication.  There was plenty of room for me to initiate and complete to manoeuvre  which I did.  We won't see eye to eye on this.  Never mind.

[simonm]

I don't mean to destroy your preconception Simon, but these people are normally weeded out during initial police selection, they're not difficult to spot.

If Quantum can get agents in to MI5, I'm sure they can get them in to the police force.  Remember that walls have ears. 

[maddog04]

nothing insane about my comments mate, you looked in your mirrors and misjudged his speed hence he on top of you, happens to bikers all the time as cagers cant judge us

[Grahamm]

Generally my (limited) experience of encounters with the Police has been good, eg when someone broke into my shed or I had a problem with nuisance phone calls and even when I was pulled over on the M27 for (ahem) making a bit too much progress (he didn't give me a ticket because I wasn't riding like a twunt!) but I do know people who have met the "copper with an attitude" and had less than pleasant experiences although they were not trying to cause trouble themselves.

Not all Police are good, not all are bad.

As regards "off-siding" I'm going to put that in a new thread, I think...

[simonm]

nothing insane about my comments mate, you looked in your mirrors and misjudged his speed hence he on top of you, happens to bikers all the time as cagers cant judge us

I didn't misjudge his speed.  He wasn't on top of me.  He could have taken his foot off his accelerator when he saw me indicating since he was exceeding the speed limit at the time.  He didn't and proceeded to tailgate me.


You have you opinion, I have mine.  We disagree.  It is interesting to see how extreme opinions can be on situations which they were not involved in or even witness to.  I would like to think that I wouldn't judge someone so harshly when I wasn't there in person and are having the situation described.


I've learnt a lot from this thread.
Ty

[simonm]

Not all Police are good, not all are bad.

Amen to that.

As regards "off-siding" I'm going to put that in a new thread, I think...

I think that would be interesting..

[BBROWN1664]

Contrary to popular belief, if your pulling out makes the person already in that lane have to take avoiding action, be it through steering or changes to speed, you have done something wrong regardless of the speed that they are doing.

[simonm]

Contrary to popular belief, if your pulling out makes the person already in that lane have to take avoiding action, be it through steering or changes to speed, you have done something wrong regardless of the speed that they are doing.

Equally being in the overtaking lane when not overtaking (as the copper was doing) is equally wrong imo.

Does that also mean that if I pull out on dual carriageway to overtake 5 lorries doing 60mph, when I'm doing 70mph which allows someone doing 90+mph to catch up with me at the 4th lorry before I've completed the manoeuvre that I'm in the wrong 

The world is more mad than I thought if that's a fact...... or did you make it up ? (factual evidence would be appreciated on that one

[BBROWN1664]

Just for you then Simon.
 

133
If you need to change lane, first use your mirrors and if necessary take a
quick sideways glance to make sure you will not force another road user to
change course or speed. When it is safe to do so, signal to indicate your
intentions to other road users and when clear, move over.

and can be found here https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-drivers-riders-103-to-158/multilane-carriageways-133-to-143

[simonm]

Just for you then Simon.
 

133
If you need to change lane, first use your mirrors and if necessary take a
quick sideways glance to make sure you will not force another road user to
change course or speed. When it is safe to do so, signal to indicate your
intentions to other road users and when clear, move over.

and can be found here https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-drivers-riders-103-to-158/multilane-carriageways-133-to-143

I'm sure that is equally applicable to traffic a quarter of a mile away with excessive speed. You're right and I'm wrong. I best not get caught then cos I'm not going to abide by that one in every situation.

[BBROWN1664]

Me Neither

[Lez72]

I'm generalising when I say that, I do intend it to be in the minority but I challenge anyone to refute that some people join the police force (in no small part)  for the feeling of power.

I don't mean to destroy your preconception Simon, but these people are normally weeded out during initial police selection, they're not difficult to spot.
 
The older cops who have done a bit of service and maybe come across as confrontive have developed this through countless years of putting up with the geenral public who think that they know better than the law practitioner stood infront of them. After a 10 hour shift when the traffic cop has stopped his 18th motorist of the day who 'knows the highway code' and 'I know my rights', and 'you can't do that' then you can probably begin to understand that he's heard it all before and his patience is wearing a little thin.
 
You've got to accept that a cop has been sworn into a position of government office, and yes they do command the respect of the general public. They are the first link in a long chain of the law system, and there to protect the public and uphold the law at street level. If you want to complain about cops and our nanny state, then take a good look at some of the Police forces outside the UK and how they behave. You DEFINATELY wouldn't start giving shit to a Croatian/Norwegian/Swedish cop 'cos they'd beat the living shite out of you then throw you in a cell.
 
Our cops don't seem so bad after all do they!!!

@ stevierst. Well said my man. It seems that some people still do have common sense and the ability to apply it.
 
@simonm. And you're basing that on what experience ? Have you been present during any police selection processes? Is that comment based on experience or just opinion ?
 
Your avatar states 'argumentative and irritable sod'. This is a quote you have made due to obviously knowing yourself better than anyone else and your posts on this subject are proving that you know yourself very well. I've read that you are attending a 'bikesafe' course in the near future. You do realise that they are run by police officers don't you ? I was just wondering, because it seems like you have a bit of a distaste for the boys and girls in blue !!! I guess they are alright when you stand to gain something out of them 

[richfzs]

He's not really all that argumentative though, is he? As soon as someone says "you're wrong", he says "I'm not arguing the point" and strops off.

More of a bolshy twat, I'd say

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

[simonm]

Nice. Always best not to mince your words.  Polite too. Point made 

[richfzs]

See, no argument, point accepted

quite irritable though

[Raymy]

This could descend into farce

























COULD, HE SAYS!!!!!!!!!!

[flesh]

This is a very polite "debate" 
I have a number of friends who are in the force and most have agreed with my tongue in cheek comment of "do you have to be a c*?t to be a poice officer or is it something your develop into...". 
Like any job, especially those that give you a postion of responsibility, you will always get those who take it a bit too far or seriously. That being said how would you react being in a job where you do not know if the person who is speaking to you could in a minute pull a blade and stab you.....that may change your perceptions of how you deal with people.
As far as your misdemeanours go Simon, whilst there was room for "debate" in both of your instances (IMO) legally you were in the wrong on both occasions although the officer in question could have used discretion if neccessary.
I tend to be nice to the police as most are reasonable individuals. I am however more than happy to be objectionable (and have done so on many occasions) if I am in the right, there is no evidence for a prosecution and the officer in question is just being a twat. It is a fine line though 

[dBfazer600]

So some facts is required Hillsborough where all but one officer lied the female officer had the courage to be an outstanding individual with all the correct ingredients for the job but where is she now? Unfortunately history shows the force was used for political gain by the government of the late 70's into 80's where I was arrested for been in a minibus going to 1. Nottingham to buy a car. 2. travelling home after a visit to the media museum in Bradford. Buy the very people that want respect and the accolade of doing a good job. i spent two nights in the cells for been a male in a minibus full of friends on an outing. our outings changed to going into the countryside where we were not harassed for been ourself.
 
So how about todays police:
http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/south-yorkshire-police-dismissed-for-lies-assault-and-theft-1-5544545
 
The reason I was not charged along with my friends was the fact that ity was an organised trip through a youth community centre with a social worker driving who also got locked up. First impressions stick and no I do not trust police until they themself as an individual do the right thing.
 
I have to lease with all emergency services and find most are extremely professional but like all civil servants they are asked to jobs that others would go to pieces if they had to clean up a death. Although when I is not in my work roll a definat attitude by some is rather unpleasant just as this thread is going. This is because everyone gets defencive when their attitude is brought into question, directly or indirectly. \but at the end of the day the police are there to protect the people and if you or I get caught then life with it or do not do it. Although there has been a shift in police practises there will be those who are dicks because thats what they are in their everyday life.
 
I can be an anal retentive if some one pissess me off at work where I work to rule and you do as well without knowing I guess.
 
Daz

[maddog04]

 Having re read your post mate, a few things jump out. You are right when you say we have no idea coz we weren't there, we can only make assumptions like courts do with evidence. I've had similar on here and felt everyone was against me, sometimes its how it comes across on paper
But........to say you have learnt a lot ref people on this site smacks of arrogance
"I'm afraid you're incorrect or at least making assumptions (on some points anyway). There was several hundred meters, maybe more, between myself and the police car when I indicated and pulled out.  If he hadn't been speeding he wouldn't have needed to change speed.  I didn't exceed the speed limit whilst overtaking because, obviously, I didn't want to get nicked.  I would have had to brake to allow the police car to overtake me or ended up embedded in the back of the car in front who was doing 60-65mph"
2 points to note here, if the cop was doing 80+ lets say 85mph he will be covering 37 metres per second so a few hundred metres gap is soon gone (remember he maybe on a call that warrants that speed or not but we're not privy to it or he maybe just another twat like us who speeds now and again)
For you to say that you'd have to brake or end up rear ending the car in front lacks forward observation.
You'll learn most of this on the bike safe course but go one further and do the IAM skills for life course and you'll see a reduction in your insurance too. Win win situation
Good luck and enjoy
 

[simonm]

Please don't be offended if I don't respond. My response would not progress the discussion and would be seen as argumentative rather than constructive.

[Gingernutz]

I'm a nurse by trade and many of my colleagues went out with and in some cases married cops. There were some right knobs in training but a lot didn't last long. A lot of them were typical lads liking nothing better than a beer and a fight on a night out.  They were not worried about waving warrant cards when things got sticky.  I'm 43 so the ones still in are the same age and they are a decent lot.


I wouldn't hesitate to jump in and help wrestle the toerag fighting with an isolated copper to the ground. Their job can be shit, thankless and stressful so there are bound to be times frayed nerves come across badly. That doesn't make them bad people. It helps that I am a white middleclass middle age numpy - I am Irish though and my memory stretches back to the days of innocent until proven Irish. If I was a young black guy getting pulled a lot who knows....  Take them as you find them - they are just people and generalising never gets you anywhere with people

[Raymy]

Inothing better than a beer and a fight.
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I wouldn't hesitate to jump in and help wrestle the toerag fighting.
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I am Irish

You can't make this shit up

[Gingernutz]

You know that noise they make in QI when you say the wrong thing? I just heard it!

[Raymy]

Aw

[caretaker]

why is it that when someone quotes bits of the highway code, all that pops into my head is a harry enfield character in a cardigan and slippers. "i dont believe you wanted to do that"  you know the one.