A question of respect (let the flaming begin...)

[stevierst]

There are plenty of prick cops and plenty of good uns. Treat em on an individual basis like you would anyone else

Touche! This is how cops generally treat people, like individuals!! Start to give them shit, and they'll get annoyed with you. Sometimes this can be the deciding factor between a bollocking and a ticket.
Respect is mutual, just needs the reciprocation from the person they're dealing with. Common sense really

[andydrz]

I have been pulled over a few times by the Police including speeding(numerous), driving with no tax, m.o.t or insurance and riding suspiciously(!). I have only been done once for speeding for doing 43mph in a 30. Each time, I know I have been stopped for a reason. I always get out of the car/off bike, say hello and take a bollocking for being a knob. I act humble, don't gob off at them, and it works. Each time they could have thrown the book at me and I believe my attitude towards them has prevented that happening. You know yourself, if someone is in your face and argumentative, it's easy to take an instant dislike to them. Why should the Police be any different?

[Raymy]

There are plenty of prick cops and plenty of good uns. Treat em on an individual basis like you would anyone else

Touche! This is how cops generally treat people, like individuals!! Start to give them shit, and they'll get annoyed with you. Sometimes this can be the deciding factor between a bollocking and a ticket.
Respect is mutual, just needs the reciprocation from the person they're dealing with. Common sense really

Thats what I was getting at.

[dBfazer600]

Respect has to be earned in my book so I start off with what I hope is a good example but if its only one way then those who chose to go down that lane gets it right back. Create an equilibrium shows others your not their to be pushed around but i don't go in fighting from the off but if they chose to educate rather than trying to tell a child off they get the respect.
 
Daz

[ghostbiker]

Don't break rules and you won't get nicked.
I know I'm not whiter than white, but when I do get pulled 9 x out of 10 I get treated the same way I treat them. Smile and be friendly and they (mostly) are the same. If you did wrong then hands up and don't bitch about it. You know the rules and if you don't you should not be on the road.
You get the odd knob as you do in any job, they also make mistakes sometimes. There humans get over it and move on.

[bri h]

Ive had good and bad experieces with the old bill and people in general. one thing ive learned is that if you treat people decently then most of them will act decently. if you treat someone like shit they will definately act like shit.

[pitternator]

in my experience ( been pulled twice, got nicked once)..you will know within a few seconds if you will get nicked. If its  a mobile camera and ur pulled over its most likely you will get a ticket unless you say and do the right things. Most police wont stop people just to preach unless they have some time on their hands. They will make a judgement on you if a talk would help or a ticket.But look at it logically , if they set up a speed trap, people will get ticketed.
I look on it as they are just doing their job, I havent been in the situation where I feel I have been " fitted up" , so cant comment on that. BUT if I am speeding , I cant be angry at being done if I get caught.I know I can argue that excess speed could be possible given the road situation at the time, but legally I have broken the law.
Ultimately yes it will come down to the discretion of the officer , so if you behave in the appropriate way you have a chance it will just be a bollocking.
 
My let off BTW was in wales, by  a rural copper with a mobile camera. I was riding alone, wasnt in power ranger leathers, was contrite and apologetic  at the time. Plus I reckon he just was in a good mood !
My nicking was a traffic cop on a dual carriagewway where the limit had changed and I missed a sign. But it still was my mistake.It was in a car though.
 
I have never been nicked while on my bike, which must be some sort of record ! 

[simonm]

I think that most people apart from the arrogant and self righteous intend to treat others the way they would like to be treated.

The only issue with this, on occasion, is when the person you're talking to is on a power trip and expects subservience and deference. This certainly gets my back up.

I'm generalising when I say that, I do intend it to be in the minority but I challenge anyone to refute that some people join the police force (in no small part)  for the feeling of power.

[Buzz]

Regarding "different personalities"... I had an interesting experience on the Bikesafe course I took in North London as I ended up sitting round a table in Frankie and Benny's, eating a Pizza, arguing with 3 police motorcycle cops about the rights and wrongs of the road.  I'd only been riding for about 3 months and don't drive a car so couldn't really comment on motorised transport but the views on cycling/red lights were very polarised and it really brought out the personalities of the officers. 


2 were fine about going through red lights (or at least early jumping of lights) when the junction was hazardous to hang back with traffic and said they'd probably give me a warning if I endangered any member of the public etc. but the other was practically going to give me a fixed penno there and then, "rules are rules" he said.


Anyway, I'd just make sure you have a good chat on your Bikesafe course, it was very enlightening to see the differing opinions of Police "off the road" and a very "humanising" experience.

[simonm]

I frequently see police using excessive speed without any emergency lights

They don't actually have to have the lights and sirens on. They are there for warning people and sometimes they need to be "silent"
 
The first one sounds like a fair nick. You crossed a white line and they did you for it. You said you were doing 70mph too but didn't mention if it was on a dual carriageway so they may have been after you before the white line incident.
 
As for Bikesafe. I did the course a few years ago and it was great. The plod on the bikes are bikers and understand how bikes should be ridden. One thing you will learn from them. No matter what they ride, they will out ride you. I thought ST1100 Pan Europeans were lardy tourers before I saw one in the hands of a police rider!
 
If you want some fun, ask them on their view on "off-siding" whilst out riding. The response I got was to go for it but they wouldn't as they were on marked bikes and the "public" don't understand how much safer off-siding is on left hand bends and just phone in with a complaint about police bikes being ridden dangerously.

Off-siding seems insane.  I wouldn't ever do it. 

[stevierst]

I'm generalising when I say that, I do intend it to be in the minority but I challenge anyone to refute that some people join the police force (in no small part)  for the feeling of power.

I don't mean to destroy your preconception Simon, but these people are normally weeded out during initial police selection, they're not difficult to spot.
 
The older cops who have done a bit of service and maybe come across as confrontive have developed this through countless years of putting up with the geenral public who think that they know better than the law practitioner stood infront of them. After a 10 hour shift when the traffic cop has stopped his 18th motorist of the day who 'knows the highway code' and 'I know my rights', and 'you can't do that' then you can probably begin to understand that he's heard it all before and his patience is wearing a little thin.
 
You've got to accept that a cop has been sworn into a position of government office, and yes they do command the respect of the general public. They are the first link in a long chain of the law system, and there to protect the public and uphold the law at street level. If you want to complain about cops and our nanny state, then take a good look at some of the Police forces outside the UK and how they behave. You DEFINATELY wouldn't start giving shit to a Croatian/Norwegian/Swedish cop 'cos they'd beat the living shite out of you then throw you in a cell.
 
Our cops don't seem so bad after all do they!!!

[Buzz]

Pesky double post

[Buzz]

Never heard of the term "Off-siding" until now but the Bikesafe officer I was with told me about a couple of callouts he had in the last 6 months.

1) Pregnant woman crossing the road, biker "off-siding" and didn't see her, knocked her over and caused a miscarriage.  25, never been nicked, never had a brush with the law and ended up with 8 years in prison for manslaughter.

2) There are certain islands that cut the road in half for a good mile or so, the North Circular has many of these apparently.  2 bikers "off-sided" to find themselves on the wrong side of the road with no way back, both killed by a lorry.

Don't care if it's all BS or not, I won't be doing it in a hurry.

[BBROWN1664]

Off-siding seems insane.  I wouldn't ever do it

I am guessing you are either joking or have never tried it.
 

There are certain islands that cut the road in half for a good mile or so,
the North Circular has many of these apparently.  2 bikers "off-sided" to
find themselves on the wrong side of the road with no way back, both killed by a
lorry.

That's not off-siding, that's just illegal.
 
 
 
Off siding is the art of sitting in the right hand gutter on a left hand bend giving you maximum visibility round the bend which in turn allows you to make better progress. Nothing is dangerous about it as it is intended to give you better options for escape in the event something comes the other way as you will see it much earlier.
The off-siding you are referring to is going the wrong way down a one way road in reality. Those islands have keep left arrows on them so ignoring them is like going through a no-entry sign.

[Buzz]

I never heard of that very sensible technique being called "Off-siding" before, thought it was just common sense, it's a learning day for me obviously...

This was my reference.

[noggythenog]

I never heard of that very sensible technique being called "Off-siding" before, thought it was just common sense, it's a learning day for me obviously...

This was my reference.

Often giving something a name like this can create a negative image when really it is using all of the road available to your advantage,just like popping out into the other lane to view the road ahead before commiting to an overtake,if somethings coming you just pop back in.


Some years back i did a 1 week blue lights driving course with the army,cheap focers wouldnt pay for the IAM ,i do remember us being encouraged to use as much of the road as possible & while we werent exactly offsiding,(mostly as we were in an 8 tonne truck) we would regularly cross the lines,if anything was coming it was easy to tighten the corner but doing the opposite & going in too shallow,especially with the weight, could fire you out onto the other side at the wrong point.


It makes perfect sense to me,only thing that slightly concerms me with being on a bike is cornering over the middle where the 2 sides meet due to the crap & markings etc.


Ok buzz so i only just noticed your link & it seems that off siding means something kinda different to what i was on about,another problem with fancy names,oh dear we'll all start ranting about nameology next

[simonm]

I never heard of that very sensible technique being called "Off-siding" before, thought it was just common sense, it's a learning day for me obviously...

This was my reference.

That was my 'reference' too

[maddog04]

I'm doing the IAM skills for life course at the mo and even if I don't pass the advanced test, I've learnt so much in 3 weeks (3 half days in reality)
off siding is a term I don't know but I think its the same as what I'm seeing the instructors do. On a 2 way single lane road (1 lane in each direction) my lane is divided in to positions 1 2 & 3 depending on where you are in the lane, pos 1 nr the gutter, pos 3 nr the centre line. On the oppo lane you have positions 4 5 & 6 but still in your direction of travel. Instructors use 4 5 & 6 to observe you and if they're leading then they use it for maximum early observations of oncoming traffic around bends. It has it's pros and cons.............good observation for making progress but the cons are that you have to be travelling fast enough to get back over the line if something happens or some boy racer in a car or on a bike undercuts you. They will not let us cross the line yet as its deemed too risky at this stage

[stevierst]

Yeah never heard of the trem "off siding" either. The left bend overtake technique used to be known as "the suicide sweep".
Since doing my advanced test s few years ago, it's perefectly safe if done correctly in the right circumstances, it's just a case of proper observation.

[simonm]

I never heard of that very sensible technique being called "Off-siding" before, thought it was just common sense, it's a learning day for me obviously...

This was my reference.

Often giving something a name like this can create a negative image when really it is using all of the road available to your advantage,just like popping out into the other lane to view the road ahead before commiting to an overtake,if somethings coming you just pop back in.


Some years back i did a 1 week blue lights driving course with the army,cheap focers wouldnt pay for the IAM ,i do remember us being encouraged to use as much of the road as possible & while we werent exactly offsiding,(mostly as we were in an 8 tonne truck) we would regularly cross the lines,if anything was coming it was easy to tighten the corner but doing the opposite & going in too shallow,especially with the weight, could fire you out onto the other side at the wrong point.


It makes perfect sense to me,only thing that slightly concerms me with being on a bike is cornering over the middle where the 2 sides meet due to the crap & markings etc.


Ok buzz so i only just noticed your link & it seems that off siding means something kinda different to what i was on about,another problem with fancy names,oh dear we'll all start ranting about nameology next

I will use as much of width the road as I feel necessary provided it's safe to do so.  Generally I find if I can see 40 metres or so ahead it's enough distance for me to hang back from the car in front and have a peek if I'm looking to overtake or find out if the reason the traffic is slowing is an accident or a tractor etc.


I'd be a lot happier doing it in a car than on a bike, but given the extra heigh of the riding position of a bike, I don't feel that it would be needed often.  Generally if I'm on the bike there are plenty of overtaking opportunities anyway, so missing one isn't really going to be an issue 

[mcsuffolk]

Offsiding is something that is taught on the police advanced motorcycle and car course and is a pass or fail element of the course.... It has great advances and at times is extremely useful andimproves safety..... However if used incorrectly is a serious danger.... It is not encouraged on thestandard police riding course typically as the risk of poor judgement is so high...... I use it when I need to....


As for the police comments if any of us do wrong we should expect consequences..... These days too many people try to blame others for their own problems. I'm not saying every officer is perfect, far from it. Officers are taken from the community as represent the community which does include bad as well as good. All officers are taught interaction management, ie talking to people, based on the physiological principle called betaris box. This revolves around the persons behaviour, including voice, language and actions suggesting how an officer should deal with them..... Like anyprinciple there are always exceptions and also officers from time to time will miss read signs.... Nobody is perfect, it should be about learning from every interaction.....

[simonm]

Yeah never heard of the trem "off siding" either. The left bend overtake technique used to be known as "the suicide sweep".
Since doing my advanced test s few years ago, it's perefectly safe if done correctly in the right circumstances, it's just a case of proper observation.

IMO overtaking on a left hand turn is not something that I'd do unless it was a gradual downhill which straightened out or when to the right and the carriageway was clear for a damn long way.


In other words, once in a blue moon.  Maybe even less.

[maddog04]

as for the original post, the cop may have been on "silent approach" and as said by others, your lack of mirrors has contributed to the car having to break (something BTW that pisses me off when cars do it to me and cut me up...........don't think they've ever heard of the 2 second rule!)
treat others as you'd like to be treated yourself and you wont go far wrong in life, you'll always get some numpty but they tend to be a minority in all walks of life, a simple "sorry officer, I just misjudged your speed" would probably have placated him/her. Been pulled a few times in the car and being polite has paid off, got done once in a works van, coned lane for workmen but no one working and doing 40 in a 30; car ahead was going away from me put never got stopped, lad was writing the ticket before I'd stopped the van.............he must have had a score to settle with white van man!!
BTW, the bike cops on my course are really good and know their stuff

[maddog04]

just re read my last post, sorry if it sounds patronising in parts as I never intended it to be..............just common sense

[stevierst]

Yeah never heard of the trem "off siding" either. The left bend overtake technique used to be known as "the suicide sweep".
Since doing my advanced test s few years ago, it's perefectly safe if done correctly in the right circumstances, it's just a case of proper observation.

IMO overtaking on a left hand turn is not something that I'd do unless it was a gradual downhill which straightened out or when to the right and the carriageway was clear for a damn long way.


In other words, once in a blue moon.  Maybe even less.

It is an exceptional set of circumstances that make it a safe overtake. I got to admit, I don't do it often due to the roads round here not being too forgiving for it.