Author Topic: Engine Rebuild (Read 17689 times)

Chris · « **Reply #50 on:** 30 March 2013, 11:00:09 pm »

You could stick a wanted add up in the classifieds section asking for a haynes manual because of the massive job you're undertaking. Would be a good idea to have one. I know it isn't perfect but it's handy to have none the less.

Sure someone will have a copy but has sold on their bike and got something else and they might just charge you postage for it.

Chris

Dead Eye · « **Reply #51 on:** 31 March 2013, 03:56:10 pm »

Time for the asking for help part

The valves definitely need a good clean all round which requires removing them. This means acquiring a valve spring compressor kit but these go from £10 to £150 so why such a huge difference in price range? I usually like to buy quality, but at £80-£150 for the brands I know its pretty steep for a very specialised piece of kit that I'm not likely to use often...

Also, any advice on the actual procedure is always welcome

red98 · « **Reply #52 on:** 31 March 2013, 07:21:47 pm »

Quote from: Dead Eye on 31 March 2013, 03:56:10 pm

Time for the asking for help part

The valves definitely need a good clean all round which requires removing them. This means acquiring a valve spring compressor kit but these go from £10 to £150 so why such a huge difference in price range? I usually like to buy quality, but at £80-£150 for the brands I know its pretty steep for a very specialised piece of kit that I'm not likely to use often...

Also, any advice on the actual procedure is always welcome

this is well within your capabilities DEADEYE and well worth doing,did my 600 last year,real old fashoned mechanics that you will enjoy doing,i have the tool for the job and will try to post pictures later when all the relatives have gone

Dead Eye · « **Reply #53 on:** 31 March 2013, 07:55:21 pm »

Awesome, thanks red

Did you go for one of the expensive kits or would a cheap one do fine? Typically more expensive items are better quality, but this is subject to the type of tool. A cheap hammer is typically going to the same job just as well as an expensive one, but cheap sockets will chew up bolts compared to good fitting, expensive and better quality ones :P

Exupnut · « **Reply #54 on:** 31 March 2013, 08:07:52 pm »

Maybee if paul has the tooling he could bring it next week and lend.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

red98 · « **Reply #55 on:** 01 April 2013, 10:37:42 am »

ive had the tooling years and used it on allsorts mainly cars cant see it being expensive ,only two guests left today so should have time for pictures and things.............if it turns out expensive could possibly lend you mine on the april meet and return on the may meet.....will post later

Dead Eye · « **Reply #56 on:** 01 April 2013, 10:50:16 am »

I look forward to it

So what exactly determines the price difference between say these two;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-5-in-1-10PCs-Valve-Spring-Compressor-Tool-Kit-Set-For-Cars-Motorcycles-Bikes-/120910732712?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item1c26d75da8
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Laser-5258-Valve-Spring-Compressor-and-Stem-Seal-Installer-Tool-Kit-/160768943094?pt=UK_Measuring_Tools_Levels&hash=item256e9363f6

limax2 · « **Reply #57 on:** 01 April 2013, 12:08:58 pm »

The second one is more specialised in that it enables the valve springs and seals to be changed without removing the head.
The first one is all you need.
Keep up the good work with photo's etc and good luck.

red98 · « **Reply #58 on:** 01 April 2013, 12:20:27 pm »

Quote from: Dead Eye on 01 April 2013, 10:50:16 am

I look forward to it

So what exactly determines the price difference between say these two;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-5-in-1-10PCs-Valve-Spring-Compressor-Tool-Kit-Set-For-Cars-Motorcycles-Bikes-/120910732712?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item1c26d75da8
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Laser-5258-Valve-Spring-Compressor-and-Stem-Seal-Installer-Tool-Kit-/160768943094?pt=UK_Measuring_Tools_Levels&hash=item256e9363f6

ah.........just been looking at those myself,the one in the red case is the one i would go for,different adaptors to suit a wide range of engines both ohv and ohc and a very good price
i have two compressors one for ohv the other ohc,i modified the ohc one to work on the fazer,it worked well

,seen them on ebay or £11/12 +del but not as good buy as multi use one

the laser tool is for removing the valve spring without removing the head for replacement of valve stem oil seal,it uses an adaptor which fits in place of the spark plug and is then attached to a compressed air supply which holds the valve shut with enough pressure to compress the spring ,remove the colets.spring retainer and spring and then the oil seal.
all very clever and a great time saver but i think for garage use only....it makes sense for the home mechanic to remove the valve at same time and re-grind them...ie ,a proper job

[size=78%] i have some pictures of the tools but for some reason i cant post pictures on my ageing pc so will try on my sons laptop later on [/size]

red98 · « **Reply #59 on:** 01 April 2013, 12:24:19 pm »

sorry LIMAX2 posted at same time ,bit long winded my reply $:\$ but same answer

Dead Eye · « **Reply #60 on:** 01 April 2013, 12:27:57 pm »

Ah, that makes a bit more sense :P

I have just bought one of those cheaper kits as the valves really do need a clean... lots of crap has fallen in to the intake especially

What exactly is required for grinding the valves? I was potentially just going to remove them, tidy them up, then replace

limax2 · « **Reply #61 on:** 01 April 2013, 12:42:50 pm »

Grinding the valves in is really just a case of cleaning up the seating faces to get a perfect seal. All you need is a small tin of grinding paste, sometimes comes with both fine and course paste, and a valve grinding tool which is a piece of round wood with a rubber sucker on the end. You will probably only need to use the fine paste. Make sure you clean it all off after and don't get it anywhere else. You should end up with a nice smooth matt finish all round the valve and seating faces.

red98 · « **Reply #62 on:** 01 April 2013, 02:01:56 pm »

well worded LIMAX2.......i`ll post some pictures as soon as i prise the laptop from my sons hands

limax2 · « **Reply #63 on:** 01 April 2013, 05:12:06 pm »

Further thoughts on the valves. The exhaust valves on the 600 are only 21mm dia so the sucker on the stick needs to be no bigger than about 19mm dia. Plenty on e-bay but any half decent car accessary shop will have the tool and paste for less than the postage cost on e-bay. Also only use the fine paste and don't over do it, just enough to see a smooth even surface. Maybe 10-30 seconds rather than minutes of lapping. In theory it can close up the valve clearance, but you shouldn't be removing a measurable amount of metal anyway.
There is an opinion that it's best to leave them alone if they seal and look o.k., but I faviour a quick fine lapping if the heads off.

red98 · « **Reply #64 on:** 01 April 2013, 06:47:31 pm »

two pictures to show the tooling and the grinding paste

red98 · « **Reply #65 on:** 01 April 2013, 07:11:00 pm »

whoops.......that was meant to be two different pictures

second one a close up of the grinding paste but i think you can make out the wording on it.......two grades in one tin,course one end fine the other,i used the compressor on the left which is for ohc engines,i ground down the top clamp to fit inside the head.it worked well.the sucker stick has two sizes of sucker and you can just about get away with the smaller one.
LIMAX2, sounds like you`ve done this job a few times before

looking through my "stuttering" thread i came across some before and after pictures of my head....page 4,reply 418 + 490..

Dead Eye · « **Reply #66 on:** 01 April 2013, 07:22:34 pm »

Thanks limax2 and red

I actually bought some of the Chemito stuff and the sucker from eBay earlier today as it wasn't overly expensive. Some of the valves look a little stuck at the moment and I wouldn't be surprised if they need a little bit of grinding. Through experience I know to take things easy instead of using brute force all the time :P

I'll keep you informed with some photos as well ^^ Need to sand back and re-spray the external of the head as well as the the rest of the block :P

I reckon the hardest part will be dealing with the timings when re-assembling and I'm leaning towards replacing the cam chain since I have the engine in so many pieces already, but they aren't cheap!

limax2 · « **Reply #67 on:** 01 April 2013, 07:35:24 pm »

Quote from: red98 on 01 April 2013, 07:11:00 pm

LIMAX2, sounds like you`ve done this job a few times before

Plenty of times on BSA's, Triumph's and Norton's but as it happens not on my Fazer. It's so reliable all I can do is add bits on and polish it.

.

red98 · « **Reply #68 on:** 01 April 2013, 07:54:42 pm »

sounds like you have everything on order now

.....a top tip that might help,before you use the valve compressor,find a socket slightly smaller than the valve spring , position on top of the spring and bounce a hammer off it.not hard just enough to loosen the spring on the seat,you can then compress the spring smoothly without any jolts and risk loosing the collets

Dead Eye · « **Reply #69 on:** 01 April 2013, 09:58:13 pm »

Hopefully it will all make more sense as I get round to it - I've read the procedure in the Haynes several times but I'm still learning about some of the more interesting parts of an engines internals :P Here's to hoping I don't break anything

Dead Eye · « **Reply #70 on:** 11 May 2013, 03:20:26 pm »

Well I finally had some free time to get out and do some more fettling with the engine. On today's agenda was removing all of the valves and trying to clean them up a bit. Needless to say but a picture shows a thousand words - and these pictures show the state of the intake ports and the poor valves...

Engine Rebuild

Engine Rebuild

Engine Rebuild

Engine Rebuild

I've given the head a good clean out and the ports are looking much tidier. However, does anyone have any advice on what to use to clean the valves? A lot of the crap on them is quite caked on - the carbs were off during the fire so everything just poured into the intake ports and down on to the valves

I tried looking to see if new valves can be purchased - doesn't look like it as they weren't even on the AJ Sutton website. I guess ideally they shouldn't be replaced, it was just a precautionary measure to check. Need to scrape off all the crap off the head and respray it which might be done reasonably soon.

Also, is there any sort of cleaner that I should avoid when dealing with the cylinders to prevent damaging the cylinder wall? Need to buy piston rings really, but they are quite expensive

red98 · « **Reply #71 on:** 11 May 2013, 08:36:50 pm »

to clean the valves i scrape off the worse with a stanley knifeblade and then put it in my drill and use a scotch bright pad or if really bad a wire brush....works a treat......while you have them out check to see if there straight by rolling the stem on a piece of glass or simular

kitcrazy · « **Reply #72 on:** 15 May 2013, 09:11:22 am »

This is great suff guys.would love to have the know how to do something like this.Keep up the good work.

Dead Eye · « **Reply #73 on:** 15 May 2013, 11:25:35 am »

I got stopped in my tracks for not having a lapping tool of the correct size. Finally got one so should be ready to grind the valves and get them all sorted. I cleaned up the intake and exhaust ports but there is still a bit of crap in the intake ones so I'm thinking a bit of fine wet & dry will do the trick

After that, it will be time to move down the engine and clean up the cylinder block. It's in mostly good condition, so I don't expect it will take long. After that, its on to the pistons. I'm really uncertain as to whether to replace the piston rings or not. On the one hand, it would make sense to do them whilst it's all apart, but on the other, they are insanely expensive at £40-50 a piston