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Author Topic: Clipons  (Read 7275 times)

JoeRock

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Clipons
« on: 12 March 2013, 02:17:27 am »
Anyone ever put a set on an FZS1000? I'm liking the bike very much in general (although at the moment the cold, and short journeys are HAMMERING my mpg), but aside from that there's only one issue I'm not liking much on the bike - the riding position. I'm going to sort some rearsets out when I get the money to sort my legs out, as at the moment it feels practically cruiser like, but the main issue I've got with the riding position is the bars - I came from a ZX9R which was literally all day comfortable as it balanced the weight on my wrists/ass perfectly for me, the Fazer has a heck of a lot more comfy seat, but it gives me back ache after a couple hours, which is really ruining an otherwise excellent bike! Don't want something stupidly low down, but something maybe an inch and a bit above the top yoke would be ideal I think

tomlinscote

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #1 on: 12 March 2013, 08:29:25 am »
Hi,
I have the opposite problem but many on here advise fitting renthal bars which are flatter than the original I am not too sure of the right number but I think the 754 are close to the originals so if you look on the renthal site and go for a model with less lift than those, 658 springs to mind but I could be well wrong there and hopefully someone who has fitted lower bars will be along soon to correct me and help you!!
Cheers
Tommo

sadlonelygit

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #2 on: 12 March 2013, 10:34:07 am »
i've got some riser plates for the footrests (back 1", up 1/2") and some renthals (can't remember, but the popular ones 754!!)
really hard to get the pegs down now and for me (5'8) has a nice balance between wrists/bum/feet taking the strain.
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kebab19

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #3 on: 12 March 2013, 04:10:26 pm »
Standard risers are some 40mm above the top yoke, change them to lower ones. I had a pair from a Virago 250(!) fitted that dropped me down nicely about 25mm.  Early TDM850 risers do the same but getting rare on ebay.  Someone posted a Triumph risers recently in the For Sale Section & would also do the trick.  GTY-R risers best lookers but an absolute rip-off when bought new.

Failing that fit some Renthal 658 flat/drag bars to the standard risers.

Rizzoma  (spelling?) did clip-ons for the Fazer but are very rare and no doubt eye-wateringly expensive

JoeRock

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #4 on: 12 March 2013, 06:36:40 pm »
The bikes already got renthals on it unfortunately, and they're still nowhere near low enough. Did have a nose at the bar risers (well, lowerers), but I'm not really a fan of straight bars at all to be honest - find they generally give quite a strange position when you're trying to hang off the bike - and what with the somewhat low footpegs on the FZS as standard, it's one bike you really do need to hang off to hustle!
What I'm really after is something like this:
http://74.50.1.242/forum/showthread.php?s=5c27a45009b8c3e5a4e03dc8e3168402&t=98816

Picture is right at the bottom of the page. The bars look to be a little bit above the top yoke, but not by much - I'm really looking to get them as low as possible whilst still maintaining proper clearance!

Tmation

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #5 on: 12 March 2013, 06:59:29 pm »
As a cheap starting point turn the standard bars upside down and turn 180 degrees (so pull back is in right direction)


There are some adjustable ace bars on the market (davidia???) or some Jota style bars.


Check out SW Motech they may have something suitable.

Tmation

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #6 on: 12 March 2013, 07:06:25 pm »
Here we go, I remembered what they are called, exactly what you need  :D


http://www.convertibars.com/


They even do a bike specific kit, I will leave you to find the UK supplier (motohaus I think)


https://convertibars.3dcartstores.com/Yamaha-FZ100-05-Bike-Specific-Kit_p_270.html
« Last Edit: 12 March 2013, 07:10:26 pm by Tmation »

PaulSmith

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #7 on: 13 March 2013, 02:21:50 pm »
A couple of points to watch out for before you spend too much trying to get the bars as low as you seem to want them. You will be tipped a long way over  in a saddle that is just not designed for that posture, it will not be comfortable. The saddle of a ZX9R was long, front to back, and quite narrow at the front, so you could adjust your posture for different styles with ease. Forward meant more upright which suited slower riding (commuting etc.) and back for head down charging.   Over 60mph on the ZX9 (with standard screen) and the wind on my chest carried my weight, taking it off my wrists, but a long day spent under 60 (touring with a group), and my back, arse, wrists and neck all began to suffer. 

This might seem too obvious to mention, (never stopped me before  :lol ) but the Fazer is not a ZX9R. It is a different bike with different strenghts and weaknesses. I would recommend trying to get to know the bike you have, and if it just doesn't work out, then you can get another ZX9R instead.

JoeRock

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #8 on: 13 March 2013, 08:06:02 pm »
A couple of points to watch out for before you spend too much trying to get the bars as low as you seem to want them. You will be tipped a long way over  in a saddle that is just not designed for that posture, it will not be comfortable. The saddle of a ZX9R was long, front to back, and quite narrow at the front, so you could adjust your posture for different styles with ease. Forward meant more upright which suited slower riding (commuting etc.) and back for head down charging.   Over 60mph on the ZX9 (with standard screen) and the wind on my chest carried my weight, taking it off my wrists, but a long day spent under 60 (touring with a group), and my back, arse, wrists and neck all began to suffer. 

This might seem too obvious to mention, (never stopped me before  :lol ) but the Fazer is not a ZX9R. It is a different bike with different strenghts and weaknesses. I would recommend trying to get to know the bike you have, and if it just doesn't work out, then you can get another ZX9R instead.

Some good points there, but unfortunately getting a ZX9R isn't currently something I can/want to do, being only 21 (and having lost a couple years of my no claims discount due to the theft of my old 9) I can't afford to insure a 9 now for a while, and I must admit I'm quite enjoying some of the more practical features of the Fazer - centre stand, fuel gauge, decent tank range (well, provided i'm not doing stop/start journeys) and probably the most important, the ability to carry a passenger and a load of luggage in decent comfort!
Hear what you're saying about the seat, that might well be something I'd have to look into getting reshaped because as you said, it's designed for an upright bike! Luckily being 21 (and having pretty good core strength from a combination of surfing and diving) means that I didn't get any wrist ache on the ninja, even at 30odd mph - longest i'd ever spent at that speed was about 4 hours and i got off fine - haven't a clue why my back can't appear to take being upright, but it's been like that since I started riding 4 years back!

stevierst

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #9 on: 14 March 2013, 03:42:52 am »
How's about a compromise and go for a set of flat bars? A couple of inch lower, and quite a bit more sporty.

I'm currently looking at slightly lowering my fz1 bars, as they're a smidgen too high for my gibon arms. You only need a slight adjustment. Wouldn't go for clip ons though, they're only useful on the track imho. Had an R1 and couldn't wait to get rid of them. But then again, I am twice our age, and twice as worn out! ::)

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silverfz

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #10 on: 14 March 2013, 03:51:04 pm »
I have gillies rear sets and Renthal 658 on mine and i think it balances it out really good.

AyJay

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #11 on: 14 March 2013, 09:06:44 pm »
Fascinating to hear how you preferred the riding position of the ZX9. One of the main reasons for me buying the Fazer was that the ZX9's riding position was so uncomfortable. I did 30,000 plus miles on mine and I found the pegs way too far forward and the bars too far a stretch which meant that my butt was in agony in 50 miles. I'm just over 6 feet tall, so maybe it's a size thing because the roomy riding position of my ZX14 is no problem at all.
Also, I hate having to balance myself against windblast - exactly the opposite of you - I find that I have to adjust the steering constantly because the wind pressure shifts from arm to arm just slightly tweaking the steering and knocking me off course.
Funny. Old. World. Innit?
M advice - if you can't afford insurance on a ZX9, get a 2003 ZX636. Very very nearly as fast as a ZX9 or Fazer and an absolute riot too. Most exciting bike I've ever ridden in fact.

ghostbiker

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #12 on: 14 March 2013, 09:58:57 pm »
Got 658 renthals on mine now, used to have the 7's and also now have the front forks raised 10mm in the head stock to lower the front plus a jack up kit on the rear. Bike turns a little quicker and pulls me a little more forward. Nothing extreme but worked well for me. Yet I didn't expect to like it.

PaulSmith

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #13 on: 14 March 2013, 11:42:08 pm »
Sorry for going off topic but...
...  because the wind pressure shifts from arm to arm just slightly tweaking the steering and knocking me off course.
If the wind pushing you around is affecting your steering, you are probably holding on to tight. Instead of holding onto the bike to fight the wind, just go with it. As an excercise, you could try practising takeing one hand off the bars at a time and feeling how the rest of your body reacts. When the rest of your body barely notices, then the wind wont bother you. 

Lez72

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #14 on: 15 March 2013, 01:46:49 am »
Sorry for going off topic but...
...  because the wind pressure shifts from arm to arm just slightly tweaking the steering and knocking me off course.
If the wind pushing you around is affecting your steering, you are probably holding on to tight. Instead of holding onto the bike to fight the wind, just go with it. As an excercise, you could try practising takeing one hand off the bars at a time and feeling how the rest of your body reacts. When the rest of your body barely notices, then the wind wont bother you.

Good advice. I recently went on an enhanced / advanced riding course and i commented to the instructor on how in 20 + years of riding i had suffered from pain in my right wrist when riding anything from a GSXR through to the Fazer 1000. He stated that i was probably holding on too tight aswell. I eased my hold on the bars up a little bit and the pain disappeared. Its a hard habit to break and i still get that pain sometimes but its always at that point that i realise i am holding on too tight again  :rolleyes
Yamaha Fazer 'the only bike you'll ever need' maybe ???

PaulSmith

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #15 on: 15 March 2013, 03:34:35 pm »
[Still off topic]
Did your instructor mention 'waggeling'? Every now and again (every time you remember), try and waggel your elbows. If they are stiff, so is the rest of you.   

AyJay

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #16 on: 15 March 2013, 08:41:02 pm »
Sorry for going off topic but...
...  because the wind pressure shifts from arm to arm just slightly tweaking the steering and knocking me off course.
If the wind pushing you around is affecting your steering, you are probably holding on to tight. Instead of holding onto the bike to fight the wind, just go with it. As an excercise, you could try practising takeing one hand off the bars at a time and feeling how the rest of your body reacts. When the rest of your body barely notices, then the wind wont bother you.
Ah yes, I know about that, but I barely hold onto the bars even when on a race track.

I was really just trying to point out the difference between JoeRock's preference for being balanced on the airstream and my reasons for not liking it. Just shows you can't please everyone with a single riding position and was impressed that JoeRock's preference was the exact opposite of mine.

The problem is I am tall and very wide at the shoulder so the standard screens that come with all sports bikes and the original on the Fazer mean that I'm like a sail or a flag flapping about in the breeze and even sails flap about when the wind changes direction. On a motorway, you're constantly battered by changes in wind direction because of the turbulent airstream coming off other vehicles and that means that on long trips it's tiring and on short trips is just annoying.

It's just a size thing rather than a control problem. With a touring screen, it's not an issue.  I once did 900 miles in a day on the Fazer and was completely comfortable, no wrist pains, no shoulder pains, no leg pains, not even much butt pain. Honestly, I could have done it again the next day, no problem. In fact, I went out later in the day and did another 120 miles to see a concert in London.

Also, thinking about it, since the force holding you up increases or decreases with speed, then it's only going to balance you at a very narrow speed range. That's another thing that makes me prefer the Fazer to my old ZX9 - it's much more upright so comfortable at town speeds when there's little air force, and with the touring screen it's fine at 90 on the motorway too. Gets a bit blowy at 120, but even so, with standard bars and Givi screen, I have a 120mph range of comfort and it takes minimal effort to keep straight and true.

If you do as you suggest and take a hand off the bars, if you are on a sportsbike and you're at the balance point then unless you are in perfectly non turbulent air, you will get knocked about all over the place and the rest of your body will be constantly reacting just to keep you in the saddle. I like to feel like a tripod when I'm on a bike - three points of contact, two hands with 20% of my weight, backside 80% and very little balancing air force. This will be heresy to some people who prefer a more 40/60 split or hang off the side more often, and I'd feel the same way if I only used it for sport riding and wasn't clocking up statospheric mileages. Certainly, when I'm on a track, I prefer the lower bars of my ZZR1400.

In fact, when I first got my ZZR1400, which had an even lower screen than the standard ZX9 screen, I found it was so low that I simply couldn't stay on the seat at 90mph, so the balance point was about 70. Not much cop for a 186mph bike I bought for the grand tour last year, and I couldn't even crouch low enough to get out of the airstream. If I went faster, I'd had to hold on tighter just to stop myself being blown off the back. I'm not joking. Same with a Blade and an R1 that I test rode, but now with a touring screen it's comfortable and effortless to control up to 140. Actually, I lie, it's pretty effortless up to 180. Then I have to duck down a bit. Sigh. Really have to go back to Germany this year . . .

Anyway, every bike forum I've been on has a huge number of posts about screens. I just wish manufacturers would provide a range of options on the showroom floor and you ride away with the one you want rather than just selling bikes with a low standard screen.  It just seems like a monumental waste of time and money because everyone is a different size and has a different preference.

They could have an exchange service so you could swap at zero cost, rather than us consumers having to buy one after the other trying to find one that suits. The Fazer's a real case in point here. There is a huge divergence in preference. I think the Givi touring  screen is spot on, others reckon a shortened standard screen is best. Some have double bubbles, some MRA varios. There's no one size fits all solution here and the same goes for bars and footrests too. On this forum, the stock answer to anyone asking about screens is not to get into it. Just buy a few and see which one you prefer.

Sorry, bit of an epic post there . . .
« Last Edit: 15 March 2013, 09:53:42 pm by AyJay »

JoeRock

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #17 on: 15 March 2013, 10:20:32 pm »
That is very funny how we're at polar opposite ends of the wind spectrum, on the ninja at motorway cruising speeds I used to have almost no weight on my wrists at all (in fact I'm sure I didn't to be honest), my chest was on a "cushion" of air holding me up, and then my head was in clear air so it was nice and quiet and not buffety. Could get up to about 120/130 like that quite comfortably (which was actually one of the reasons I went for an FZS 1000, because I was hoping it wouldn't be as deceptive about speed as the ninja was!)

Been having a bit of a think of what I want from a bike today, and although a sportsbike is what I would love, I'm not sure I can live with their short comings now I've had a taste of practicality, so I'm going to stick with the Fazer for a bit to see what it's like to live with (the big issue atm I've with it that would end up being the breaker is mpg). If that sorts itself out, then I'll probably start converting it to fit me better -clipons and probably rearsets would tip me forward so would sort out my ass, and then some money spent on suspension and a jet kit would result me in essentially having something that handles, brakes and goes very well, is comfy for me, and also has a great tank range and ability to carry a pillion and luggage in comfort, which is basically everything I could possibly want from a bike!

AyJay

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #18 on: 15 March 2013, 10:52:37 pm »
Sounds like the Fazer with lower bars is probably as close as you can get right now JoeRock. I feel your pain about the insurance - when I was 23, I was quoted 1700 quid fully comp on my VFR750..... In 1985! Christ know's what that would be in today's money.


It's bad timing for me to say this, but given the wish list of things you want from a bike, a ZZR1400 ticks every box - fast, sports riding position, comfy, massive tank range, brilliant two up and pretty economical to run, too. The only thing it lacks is the ZX9s looks - I saw a E1 ZX9 in the same red as I had the other day, and I reckon it's still a great looking bike. I still feel a bit guilty about selling it.


mpg - you're dead right, cold weather hammers mpg. I'm down a good 20 miles per tank at the moment. In summer, I get 165 miles to warning light, at the moment, it's more like 145. Every now and then I think 'hmmm, Honda NC700, 80 to the gallon' and then I snap back and think, 50bhp.....naaahhhh.


Roll on spring!

JoeRock

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #19 on: 16 March 2013, 04:25:27 pm »
Sounds like the Fazer with lower bars is probably as close as you can get right now JoeRock. I feel your pain about the insurance - when I was 23, I was quoted 1700 quid fully comp on my VFR750..... In 1985! Christ know's what that would be in today's money.


It's bad timing for me to say this, but given the wish list of things you want from a bike, a ZZR1400 ticks every box - fast, sports riding position, comfy, massive tank range, brilliant two up and pretty economical to run, too. The only thing it lacks is the ZX9s looks - I saw a E1 ZX9 in the same red as I had the other day, and I reckon it's still a great looking bike. I still feel a bit guilty about selling it.


mpg - you're dead right, cold weather hammers mpg. I'm down a good 20 miles per tank at the moment. In summer, I get 165 miles to warning light, at the moment, it's more like 145. Every now and then I think 'hmmm, Honda NC700, 80 to the gallon' and then I snap back and think, 50bhp.....naaahhhh.


Roll on spring!

I must admit I do love the ZZR1400s, (although I do agree with you that the ZX9Rs look much better!) Will definitely own one at some point, but at the moment I imagine insurance might be a tad prohibited due to my age  :lol Out of interest, what kind of mpg/tank range do you get on yours?
I must admit a big part of the reason that I bought a Fazer was that they're supposed to be good on fuel, and have a decent tank range. My ninja used to regullarly do about 150 before reserve (45mpg) around town. The Fazer at the moment is getting about 32mpg for the same riding, that said, it's very cold, and it's a series of short journeys, which I know won't help matters. Only long ride I've ever had on it was moderately spirited and I got 42mpg, which I thought was pretty acceptable! Can only dream of 165 to the light at the moment! I do reckon it might be in need of a service, I've got a set of spark plugs waited to be fitted, and then I'll balance the carbs too, so hopefully that'll help issues!

AyJay

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #20 on: 16 March 2013, 05:15:58 pm »
I get about 43 to the gallon overall, but on a motorway, it does 47-50 at a constant 95mph. Seems like it's built to work most efficiently at around that speed because upping it to 110 knocks it back a bit and even at 70, you don't get any improvement.


The other weird thing is I got it with Avon Storm Ultra 2's on it and although they are utterly lethal in the wet, they have lasted 9500 miles. Compare that to the Fazer on Bridgestone BT023s which last 6000 miles.


32 to the gallon is pretty low for a Fazer. Even on track thrashing the spuds off it I've never been below 25. General riding I get 45 ish, on a cruise even more. Once did 210 on tank and still had 2 litres left, but that was on a very hot day in France on a slow "I'm knackered today" 80mph cruise.

1967fazer

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #21 on: 16 March 2013, 06:01:33 pm »
I still fail to see why so many people are hung up on fuel economy whilst riding a Fazer, 45mpg or around 150-160 to a tankful is very reasonable considering the bike is capable of a 165mph top speed and a 0-60 time of around 3 secs! Compare that with a car, capable of those figures and if you see 20mpg you're doing well! Also bear in mind, the zx9 is fully faired and is designed for the wind to slip round it, whereas, the Fazer has things like an engine and all sorts of other things to catch the wind.
As for thinking a sports bike is what you really want, I've yet to have sports bike pass me when I'm out for a blast, so I would suggest, putting some lower bars on, possibly some rearsets (something I'm considering aswell) and get out there and discover what the Fazer is really capable of doing! And don't worry about fuel consumption, just fill it up when the light comes on.

JoeRock

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #22 on: 16 March 2013, 07:09:43 pm »
I still fail to see why so many people are hung up on fuel economy whilst riding a Fazer, 45mpg or around 150-160 to a tankful is very reasonable considering the bike is capable of a 165mph top speed and a 0-60 time of around 3 secs! Compare that with a car, capable of those figures and if you see 20mpg you're doing well! Also bear in mind, the zx9 is fully faired and is designed for the wind to slip round it, whereas, the Fazer has things like an engine and all sorts of other things to catch the wind.
As for thinking a sports bike is what you really want, I've yet to have sports bike pass me when I'm out for a blast, so I would suggest, putting some lower bars on, possibly some rearsets (something I'm considering aswell) and get out there and discover what the Fazer is really capable of doing! And don't worry about fuel consumption, just fill it up when the light comes on.

I'm not so much fussed about fuel economy for it's own sake, but more because as I haven't been riding it hard (or at least, my standards of hard), I'm more concerned about why mine is currently doing close to 30, and other peoples mid 40s!

AyJay

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #23 on: 16 March 2013, 07:40:35 pm »
I know it's banal, but my excuse is I do 600 miles a week, 28,000 a year. 5mpg makes a difference.

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Re: Clipons
« Reply #24 on: 16 March 2013, 07:51:16 pm »
Many years ago I used to ride a VFR750, when I bought my first Fazer 1000 in 02 I wanted a riding posistion similar to the VFR, after a good bit of hunting around I ended up with Suburban S11 handelbars, as far as I know these can still be bought (expensive though) and they turn up on American ebay every now and again, well worth a look IMHO.