1998 Fazer 2nd Gear Issue

[guzziman]

Hi all, I will be soon taking delivery of my mate's 1998 Fazer which has the 2ng gear issue, i.e. it jumps out of 2nd gear which can no longer be selected. I am told that where the cog is usually located with a woodruff key but Yamaha, in their wisdom decided that a press fit was adequate. Over the course of time the cog spins on the shaft hence 2nd gear jumps and ultimately can't be selected. Two questions: does anyone know of a recognized fix for this issue and, what other Fazer engines fit a 1998 model? The bike is in otherwise good condition and will be easy to recommission.

[markbubble]

iv not seen inside the fazers engine but depending on amount of time and money wanting to be spent strip it and depending on damage either get it welded on maybe or woodruf key slots 'cut'in by machine shop etc there should be loads of used engines out there but they might be in same condition(or worse!) i think the fzr and thunder cat(or ace which ever was the 600cc model) are same engines and blocks but there will be more on here who know for sure,if rest of engine is good id be inclided to try repair this engine if possible,ave fun and good luck

[richfzs]

thundercat engine is NOT the same, it has different cam covers, and (I believe) doesn't fit the fazer frame

[markbubble]

ok thanks rich glad you know as i was told there the same   

[richfzs]

Its a common misconception. Not sure where it started, tbh

[darrsi]

Probably because they share the same Haynes manual........

[markbubble]

maybe so!does the engine(or gearbox) get used in any other bike then do we know?
 

[Fazerider]

Its a common misconception. Not sure where it started, tbh

IIRC, all the bike magazines referred to it as being a detuned Thundercat engine when the Fazer first came out... so lazy journalists are probably to blame.


Guzziman: Maybe the second gear problem begins with a poor profile of the selector shaft cam or an easily bent selector fork, or possibly even something as simple as the return spring on the gear lever shaft or the detent spring on the drum getting weak. The change from first to second is the most stressful one so that will show problems first. Deefer is the one who'll know what the cause is, if anyone does.
It gets worse each time you don't manage a clean up-change either because the dogs on the gear get damaged until there's enough of a chamfer there that it will spit it out of engagement every time you try to put any power through it, or because the fork gets so bent it never gets the chance to fully engage.
So far as I understand the innards of the box, the gears are in permanent mesh and need to be able to slide, welding a gear to the shaft is unlikely to improve things if you want to be able to change gears.
My solution was a second-hand engine. I'd have liked to investigate, but lack of time and space meant the sick one had to go to the scrapyard.

[kebab19]

The bikes share a lot of engine parts, probably better to think of the Fazer engine as a very heavily revised T'cat engine with different external casings (so won't fit) and no downdraft carbs.

In other words, a different engine

I think 2nd gear loss is an engine-out, gearbox fix. Plenty of info on the old site from memory

[unfazed]

Most likely Selector and drum (the most common problem)
It is an engine out job but not a complete strip, you cannot take off the sump because the frame tubes are in the way.
Remove the sump and you will see the selector forks and drum.
You will need to remove the clutch to get the shafts holding the drum and selectors out.
A relatively easy problem to check and fix.
Unfortunately if it is the gearbox then it will require a full engine strip as there are two crankcase bolts under the barrel

[darrsi]

Listen to Unfazed, i had my main gear selector spring changed and it sorted things out, just that, nothing else!!

[Lawrence]

Just out of interest, if this does start happening can you still shift through 2nd into 3rd and continue to ride it?

[Fazerider]

Just out of interest, if this does start happening can you still shift through 2nd into 3rd and continue to ride it?

Yes, at least you can until it gets really bad.

[Deefer666]

Yes but what you have to remember that while your selector forks are grinding away you will have lots of pieces of swarf heading off around your engine and the ends of the forks will eventually break off and head off into your gearbox.

[fazerboy01]

Ive got a "Y" Reg FZS600s, had the very same problem years ago, was advised changing the selector forks and shafts would sort it. which I did. Never took the engine out though. I removed the tank and fairing, drained the coolent and oils, got a thin-ish matteress off a zed-bed thing and layed the bike down, clutch side up. Removed the clutch casing, Clutch and sump (IIRC 2 of the 5mm allen head bolts were awkward to get to, but boom, she was off. It solved the problem momentarily (500/600 miles-ish) but the problem soon returned.
Later, after obtaining and fitting a 2nd hand engine, I spoke to deefer, who said I did right but I should have changed the selector drum as well!!! Will know for next time eh!!
but as daunting as it looks at first glance, its an easy enough job as long as you have a half decent set of tool's and ALL the replacement parts (Drum, selectors, shafts, gaskets, oil and oil filter and just to be safe some black silicone gasket stuff) and a good few hours un-interupted (if your a novice/intermediate skill level) take your time, take pictures if need be, and you will be fine. Id do mine again without a 2nd thought.

[Bias]

Top info FazerBoy   

[andybesy]

Really nice series of vids showing engine rebuild linked below, in particular this one shows how gear selectors work:

2000 Yamaha YZF-R1 Engine Rebuild - Part 11

And the full playlist starts here:

2000 Yamaha YZF-R1 Engine Rebuild Part 1

It's an R1 not a FZS, but I've never taken bottom end apart so helped me get an idea whats in there. Should be similar.


Hope to one day: just need a project bike and somewhere to work on it!


Good luck - and I'd be really interested to hear how you get on so keep us updated.


Andy

[Dead Eye]

I love these sorts of vids and playlists - I can waste entire evenings watching them with as much interest as a blockbuster movie. Went through a set last year which showed from start to finish the assembly of a Mk2 Golf GTi engine - I had one at the time so was very interesting.