Rusty fuel tanks-whats the solution

[noggythenog]

Ive read a fair few storys about internal rust in fuel tanks due to age/dodgy modern fuel/condensation etc, i also note that a brand spanking tank from yamaha is nigh on 800 quid,


So in the future when all remaining fazers are worth a grand, an 800 quid part isnt really feasible to most


So whats our options?,has anyone discovered an amazing sealant our are these only temporary fixes for a couple of years,


Is anyone into classic bikes that has a solution,what sort of price are we talking


I wouldve thought someone with the right skills could make a killing from restoring tanks from old bikes
And if indeed it is modern fuel thats partly responsible then business should be increasing all the time.

[Dave48]

Condensation has always been an issue-thats why its a good idea to lay up bike for storage with full tank & fuel stabiliser added. The new & growing problem seems to be due to the ethanol(ethyl acohol) added to modern fuels. Not only does this attack traditional tank sealants(Petseal etc) but it will affect rubber & plastic fuel system components over time. I guess if you are planning to keep yourFazer for the long haul then it might be a good idea to build up a stock of spares as & when they come up @ the right price-Tanks are a horrendous price  new but there must be a fair few knocking around in breakers/dismantlers in fair nick.

[Rusty]

Tank lining is almost universal in the classic bike world and there are lots of products out there for this purpose.  The problem is the ethanol in modern fuel damages older type linings, removing them and clogging up the fuel system.

Modern alternative linings are intended to fix that, but should the biofuel/ethanol content added to petrol increase from the current level of around 5% to the American levels of 10% then we're possibly back to square one.  Even modern bikes are affected. Some Ducati's for example have plastic fuel tanks which absorb the ethanol and go soft. This allows them to 'sag' and come off their frame mountings. Ducati's reply is that they don't put the ethanol in the fuel so it's not their problem, and the government will tell you it's not theirs either.

The German's trialled 10% ethanol for a while and were rewarded with mechanical malfunctions galore, as any plastic or rubber components used in the vehicles fuel systems simply dissolved. The best protection is to use an additive in your fuel if laying up the bike, or drain the tank altogether. Prevention is better than cure but the bottom line is your motorcycle was sold to have a finite working life, and the increased ethanol in fuel will just help it along that process that bit quicker.

You will then be forced to cough up for a replacement vehicle, but look on the bright side - you saved a Polar bear.

[MadDogMcQ]

There are a few tank sealers on the market used by bike restorers (I've got a tin of it in my garage) but the best way to prevent it happening in the first place, is to keep your tank full, especially when storing it over the winter.

[Fazerider]

I used stuff called Restom. I found it on Ebay, but it's a French company that doesn't appear to have any distributors over here.
The kit consists of a degreaser to remove any petrol varnish, phosphoric acid to dissolve rust and finally, once you've got the tank clean and dry, a two part resin with which you coat the inside of the tank (just by pouring it in and tilting the tank around).
I did mine four years ago after the smell of leaking fuel led me to a rust pinhole at the bottom of the tank. It hasn't given any trouble since.

[Fazerider]

POR15 looks as if it's very similar to the stuff I used.

[JZS 600]

An old method I heard about but never used (as my bike is on the road all year  ) was to drain the tank, take if off the bike and roll a small amount of engine oil around the insides coating it.
 
Anyone tried this?

[Phil TK]

An old method I heard about but never used (as my bike is on the road all year  ) was to drain the tank, take if off the bike and roll a small amount of engine oil around the insides coating it.
 
Anyone tried this?

Yep on an F1200 I laid up for a year, but I two stroke oil since I figured it would simply burn off without probs once I recommisioned the bike -it did just that, and the tank didn't rust either. The bike was kept in a nice dry garage during storage I might add.

[noggythenog]

2stroke oil coating sounds interesting, as does picking up a decent second hand tank, trouble is that even the newest of tanks are from 2003'


Ive been filling my tank up every time i come back from a run but its an old bike and it probably hasnt had that from new so the damage perhaps is already done,


Its just a bit of a shame really as most parts seem reasonably priced enough to keep replacing them but this could eventually be its achilles heel


Yamaha really dont want us keeping our old bikes with an 800 quid price tag, absolute scandal,


I think if i was buying or had just bought a new bike i'd be hunting around for a spare tank for the future whilst they were still newish,mind u if i could afford a new bike would i really care!

[Phil TK]

I wouldn't worry too much, my FJ1200 was 20 years old by the time I aquired it and although there was few very small deposits of fine rust particles in the float bowls (this can cause the needle valves to stick btw) rusting was really never an issue. I fitted a good quality filter inbetween the tank and pump and this took care of it anyway.
 

[alan sherman]

Can anyone make one out of stainless?

[noggythenog]

Stainless would look the shizny, i dont think id even paint it if i had one, well maybe some rivets painted on and make it look like a world war 2 fighter plane,


Surely theres someone out there, if its gonna affect pretty much every bike by every manufacturer at some point,


I work alongside petroleum refiners so im gonna see if i can get an honest answer out of them about this ethanol malarky and if theres anything they would recommend since they make the stuff,


I wonder whether jet fuel has any additives and if so what the aviation industry does.

[Rusty]

There are alloy fuel tanks made in India for many types of classic bikes so I suppose they would make Fazer replacements if the demand was there, but somehow I don't think it will be.  Another five years from now our bikes will be at the absolute bottom of their depreciation dip so the tanks will be worth more than the bikes.

[dickturpin]

800 quid for a new tank?!....surely the blue ones are more than that!

[ponkster]

I have had this problem with two of my bikes - an 98 fazer and a 59 BSA
With the BSA getting another tank was not a viable option so I opted for the POR 15 tank sealer kit wich was not cheap ( About £55 I think ) - it did work but took alot of careful prep work to get right. You have to be careful when buying a tank seeler as not all are as ethanol proof as they claim and can start to delaminate and block carbs over time.
 
The fazer was a lot easier to solve - the previous owner had attempted to solder the underside of the tank which just delays the rot - if the tank is rusting from the inside 9 times out of 10 its shott by the time you find a hole and by repairing the holes that's all you will do untill you get another tank. I went on ebay an got a tank for £60 - it was for a Mk 2 ( which fits perfectly) and was the wrong colour but it got the bike back on the road. It turns out I quite like the yellow tank and have kept it the colour it was when I got it which has made it a cheap fix.
 
If you do opt for tank sealer take your time and do the prep properly as you only get one shot at getting it right and its a sod to get out if you stuff it up and quite a costly mistake at fifty ish quid a pop. Dont be tempted just to buy the sealer - you need the kit that has the prep solutions as well to get a good stick to the inside of the tank.
 
hope this helps
 
Chris

[markbubble]

as already said keep tank topped up especially in the lay up months(if you lay bike up!) not sure if the fuel stabilizer will help also,a small amount of 2 strok wouldnt go a miss but too much might clog carbs a bit as it still does settle a little and might foul plugs but worst case in a few years or earlier is to line the tank,iv done loads on 50s and 60s bikes and cars and only the early ones i did have caused problem due to the cange in the petrol at pumps and the ethnol in it,if you get the newer ethonal proof tank sealer ten should work for many years,if possible remove your tank and store in a dry area over winter ie next to the best towels in airing cupboard!!

[Fatherbiker]

If you are already getting a leak from your tank, there is a sealer on the market called 'KREEM'. It is a 3 part cleaner, primer, sealer and very easy to do, but as someone has already said, take your time and do it correctly because this stuff definately works! I have done two fuel tanks with it. One was the CBX 550 tank and the other was a CB 250 RS Honda a still have in parts (ready for a full restoration). I did try 'Petseal' in a trial tank for the cbx and it failed so ended up throwing the tank away! I think the KREEM is about £45.00 but it can save you a fortune!

[noggythenog]

And then the lord said, let there be KREEM,


Thank you father


Amen!

[DanielT]

but look on the bright side - you saved a Polar bear.

So these polar bears we're saving...  is it because they are alcoholic, and would drink the ethanol unless the petrol companies take it away?

And what happens when they turn up on our shores, nicking our jobs and going into rehab on the NHS?

[Tori]

Deefer ran an airline through my old trike tank I believe. Then I had an inline fuel filter, just in case.

[Fatherbiker]

And then the lord said, let there be KREEM,


Thank you father


Amen!
bless you my son!!

[His Dudeness]

you could use electrolysis to clean the rust out of the tank

[noggythenog]

Lots of good ideas coming through here,perhaps it isnt such a misery after all,


I took a deek through the filler hole with a torch (my lighter ran out've gas ), it looked really clean but im guessing the rust is always on the roof of the tank where the air gets to most?

[Rusty]

but look on the bright side - you saved a Polar bear.

So these polar bears we're saving...

Don't say 'we' - I'm not saving any.[size=78%] [/size]In fact I go out of my way to put as many hydrocarbons as I can into the atmosphere, the quicker the Polar bears go extinct the less chance I have of being eaten by one that's my motto.   I'd rather save a Koala bear instead they don't look too menacing.

[Pat]

Tank lining is almost universal in the classic bike world and there are lots of products out there for this purpose.  The problem is the ethanol in modern fuel damages older type linings, removing them and clogging up the fuel system.

Modern alternative linings are intended to fix that, but should the biofuel/ethanol content added to petrol increase from the current level of around 5% to the American levels of 10% then we're possibly back to square one.  Even modern bikes are affected. Some Ducati's for example have plastic fuel tanks which absorb the ethanol and go soft. This allows them to 'sag' and come off their frame mountings. Ducati's reply is that they don't put the ethanol in the fuel so it's not their problem, and the government will tell you it's not theirs either.

The German's trialled 10% ethanol for a while and were rewarded with mechanical malfunctions galore, as any plastic or rubber components used in the vehicles fuel systems simply dissolved. The best protection is to use an additive in your fuel if laying up the bike, or drain the tank altogether. Prevention is better than cure but the bottom line is your motorcycle was sold to have a finite working life, and the increased ethanol in fuel will just help it along that process that bit quicker.

You will then be forced to cough up for a replacement vehicle, but look on the bright side - you saved a Polar bear.

E10 (10% ethanol) unleaded is pretty much universally available in Germany & France these days, so either the reports of malfunctions have been somewhat over exaggerated or they've spent a fortune replacing the dissolving components with sturdier ones!