Starting issues - help!

[Rikki]

Had my 03 Fazer for a few months now & been using it daily in all weather. A few times it has struggled to start - it  sometimes seems like the battery is low as the neutral light dims when turning over, but has always started after a few turns. Then next day everything would be back to normal.

Today it won't start at all. It turns over a few times then stops, as a buzzing noise comes from somewhere near the battery.

I'm guessing it may be some sort of electrical issue stemming from the summer monsoons. I'm not good with electrics, not even slightly. Anyone else had any similar problems? Any suggestions welcome. I have a can of WD40 ready, but not sure where to aim it!

[darrsi]

I'd start with the obvious and give the battery an external charge!

[red98]

ah.....armed and dangerous  .......as above ,charge the battery and see how you go 

[ade the blade]

if battery keeps going `flat` every couple of days, get a mate with a multimeter ( preferably one who knows how to use it....and show you ) to check that the generator is actually charging the battery as the engine is running. good luck !!

[unfazed]

 The buzzing noises are the relays chattering due to insufficient power to hold them up. First thing to do is charge the battery fully with the proper charger (I use an optimate) and while it is charging do the following easy checks. Under the seat disconnect the starter relay; this is the four wire connector next to the fuse. Check it for corrosion, clean it and give it a squirt of WD40 into both sets of connectors. As you are there pull the fuses in turn and check those for corrosion also and a squirt of WD40 will do no harm.
Next lift the tank and prop it with a length of wood or something about a foot long.(something non metallic is best as it will not damage the paintwork and tank near empty is easier to lift). Now open the box with all the connection in it. Take each one apart and spray them with WD40. There are known issues of corrosion in some of these connectors. Even though the connectors blocks are coloured coded do it one at the time if you are not used to doing it.
Close the box and reseat the tank.
When the battery is fully charged replace the seat. Wait until dark to start the bike after starting do not rev it until you first switch on the lights. Switch on the lights and watch carefully the brightness of the lights. Now rev the bike to around 5000 rpm as this it point where the max charging starts. The lights should increase slightly in brightness.  If they increase in brightness the charging system is working, if they don’t it is not charging. While this is not a perfect test it is a simple one for someone who does not have the necessary tools for checking the charging.  Leave the bike overnight and if you have problems starting in the morning than the battery is the most likely suspect and would need replacement.  The Fazer electrical system is generally very reliable and corrosion is its biggest enemy. One exception is probably the plug caps loosening on their leads but this is a design issue rather than an electrical.

[AdieR]

What sort of trips are you doing? If they're short ones, it might not be enough to charge the battery after starting.

[Rikki]

Thanks for the replies (especially unfazed's comprehensive instructions!). I do a commute of 6 miles each way on urban roads, so maybe not getting a decent charge.

Unfortunately I haven't got round to buying a charger yet, it was on my to-do list. Trouble is I don't have a car & there are no bike dealers nearby. There was a Hein Gerick but it may have closed now. Will a cheap car battery charger do as a temporary fix until I can get an Optimate type one? Something like this from Argos:

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/7404355/c_1/1|category_root|Garden+and+DIY|14418702/Trail/searchtext%3EBATTERY+CHARGER.htm

Not sure if 6A will destroy the battery though. If not will have to hang on until I can get to a dealer.

[unfazed]

The fazer battery is a sealed unit and is only suitable for charging with trickle chargers. The Argos charger is not suitable as it will charge the battery to fast and damage it in one of two ways , buckle the plates or cause evaporation of the acid and being sealed you cannot replace the acid. It is only suitable for unsealed lead acid type batteries. This one appears to be more like what you require if buying from Argos http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Search/searchTerms/TRICKLE+CHARGER.htm
As AdieR says it is possible that you journeys are to short or to slow to charge the battery fully and it will discharge eventually. It this is the case I would suggest you take a longer way home every second or third day. Full charging only occurs above 5000rpm therefore if you are doing a lot of stop start riding in traffic and short journeys it will eventually discharge.
Battery life is around 4 to 7 years depending on use/care and it is possiblle it is on the way out. Some expire gradually as cells deteriote  (12 volt batteries have 6 cells) gradually, eventually one of the cells packs up. If this happens the battery will only start the bike on the first try and if the first try fails it will not have sufficient charge for a second try. The battery specialists have a special device for checking batteries to see if cells are beyond salvage, but before you splash out on a new battery try the recommendation above first.
 
 
 

[darrsi]

What 'unfazed' means is that he can type quicker than us, but ultimately, charge the battery..... 

[Fazerider]

Sound advice from unfazed regarding diagnosis, but the trouble with that trickle charger is that maintaining a fully charged battery is all it can do. Useful if you're hooking it up overnight or for weeks at a time when the weather's too bad for riding, but if you're leaving for work and discover a flat battery it won't help. The 6A one will get a useful amount of charge in and do no harm provided you disconnect before the battery gets overcharged. Half an hour or so at a 6A charge rate will probably get your battery from the relay-chatter state to being able to fire up the motor.
Lead acid/AGM batteries are pretty robust and will accept fast charging without damage so long as the rate tapers off as it gets near to being fully charged. 6A is fast, but the bike's own charging circuit is capable of providing more current than that!

[AdieR]

If you have a Halfords nearby, they've got chargers that'll go down to 2A; I have one (never used yet though), about £40 IIRC. I personally am reluctant to fast-charge or boost-charge a battery - the heat can damage your battery internally (it buckles the plates via heat) and render it scrap.

6 mile run to work is a bit borderline; usually it'll need between 8 and 10 miles (as a rule-of-thumb guide) just to replenish the juice used in starting (thumbing that button does use considerable amount of power), maybe a bit longer if you've got lights (mine are always on) / heated grips / alarm / immobiliser drawing on it.

As unfazed: take your bike for a good, long fast run once a week or so to give it a charge.

[unfazed]

 Darrsi, did you not know, I use a Dictaphone and my secretary types it. 

[Rikki]

Thanks again folks. Good news today - I dropped by Machine Mart on the way home & they had an Oxford Oximiser 900 which I happily took off them. On removing the battery (GS CB9L-B2) I found it has a rubber strip covering the cell chambers. Last time I charged a battery (some years ago) it didn't have this. Should I remove it or leave it on? The charger instructions say refer to battery manufacturer's instructions but I don't have them.

On a seperate note, on the way home the bus (which was late anyway) broke down & I had to wait in the middle of nowhere for another one. Made me realise how much better life is with a Fazer!

[ade the blade]

leave the strip on matey. its normally only removed when new to fill with electrolyte and then normally remains `sealed` for its lifespan. just connect it up and plug in 

[Rikki]

All sorted! Fired up straight away after a short charge. Unbelievably simple. Have to get back to you soon with some more Mickey Mouse issues! Thanks for all replies. Top forum & top posters.

[darrsi]

I do believe that's 3 out of 3 lads.......

[unfazed]

 That is your problem, wrong battery.
 Bike Batteries are sold with 2 important measurements:
 CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) and AH (ampere Hours)
 The definition of the CCA of a motorcycle battery is the amount of current a given battery can deliver for 30 seconds at zero degrees (Fahrenheit) without dropping below a specified cut off voltage (manufacturer-specific, but usually 10.5 volts). The value of CCA will change with battery temperature, CCA increasing with higher temperatures. Therefore a 180 CCA will allow 180 amps flow for 30 seconds at zero (Fahrenheit) before reaching the cut off voltage
 The definition of AH is the amount of charge in a battery that will allow one ampere of current to flow for one hour. Therefore a 10 AH battery will flow 1 amp for 10 hours before going completely flat. On the 2002/2003 Fazer 600s that would be the same as letting the headlights on high beams on for one hour.
 The battery you have in your bike is a 9AH model with only 85A CCA and is normally used in small capacity bikes or kick start only larger old bikes.
 The OEM battery for the FZS600 is a GS GT12B−4, which is 10 ampere/hour,180A CCA.
 My advice is dump the battery and get the correct size one.
 

[Rikki]

Hmmm...not sure why it had the wrong battery in it. Did seem wedged in a bit tight when I was removing it & there's no retaining strap either. I noticed the code was different from the manual but just assumed that different codes  referred to different dimensions. Learned something new today - cheers!

I've added a GT12B−4 to my to-do list now. Don't suppose anyone knows where's cheapest to pick one up?