Olympic Conclusions

[Rusty]

There was also a female hockey player had her jaw broken with a full on whack with a hockey stick. They patcher her up and she played the rest of the tournament with a fractured jaw - absolute hero. 

  So lets remember the athletes instead hey?

Exactly. Not Boris Johnson or Cameron.


As for diversity I think it is wrong to 'celebrate' it. Now before anyone jumps down my throat please bear with me. Those individual athlete's (of all ethnic backgrounds) did something very special, they plotted themselves a course, trained hard, and dug deep within their mental and physical reserves to win through, and That is what needs celebrating.


These were people from all backgrounds, social strata and ethnicity, but what they had in common was the will to overcome the odds and to succeed.  When put together those diverse individuals formed 'Team GB' and went on to make us proud. The message that we should take from this is that commonality of purpose is what makes us work well together, and achieving shared goals are what brings out the team spirit and self respect as a nation.  To point out our differences as this current obsession with celebrating diversity does, is to divide into segments rather than unite as a whole.


We've seen what can be achieved if we all work together for a common goal, so why make a feature of distinctions and divisions rather than unite under one banner?

[Slaninar]

Couldn't agree more mate. The footballers could learn a lot from many sports over the last few weeks, with their bolshie attitudes, and their rolling around on the floor "Ref, he looked at me wrong, look I'm holding my shin, ow it hurts". Just a few examples:-

a) American sprinter in the 4*400 - broke his leg at the 200m point, but finished his leg quick enough for them to qualify for the final
b) Tony Martin in the Tour de France, broke his wrist but rode another few days before retiring
c) I forget his name, another rider in the TdF, crashed heavily, but completed the stage (around 25km) before saying he thought he should go to hospital - where they told him he'd broken his hip.
d) The grief they get away with dishing out to the referees - any other sport they'd be sent off immediately. Compare with RugbyU, where the ref is "Sir" and even if a wrong call is made, there is no back chat at all - and not even much complaint after the game is complete, just an acceptance thats how it is.

The footballers deserve no respect at all, and are definitely no role models.

Sounds like something you hear from a woman. You played football?

Vinnie Jones - Football's hard men

cristiano ronaldo injuries and fouls

[Raymy]

I'd be willing to boot anyone anyone in the shin with their shinnies on so we can gauge their reaction

[ozpom]

Not wanting to get too Grahamm-esque but...

To show the world that we're aware of it and glad of it.

We?

Yes, we, the people of Britain, who were being represented by the ceremonies. We, the British people who understand that while there are immigrants who take the piss and break the rules there are a lot of non-immigrants who do the same things and lot a of immigrants who do things right and make the UK a better place. If that doesn't include you then that's a pity.

Perhaps we should also have celebrated how wonderful it is to be in the EU?  Or replaced the Union flags with Brussels star circles and had our MP's march along waving them as examples of personal integrity and trustworthyness? The whole thing was political propaganda, stage managed confection, total bollox intended to project an image of a Britain that doesn't actually exist.

The athletes did well, but they were and are being used as political pawns.

Yes, they are, but as often happens in these sorts of discussions you're taking things to extremes to dodge the question. I'm not going to push this any further as I'll just be dismissed as a lefty pinko tree-hugger 

Ozpom - the opening ceremony was massively diverse!  The actors of various skin colours playing parts that would have been white at the time, the whole section about the immigrant workforce to rebuild after the war.  The section about teenagers appears to be about teenagers in that particular part of London (this made me laugh actually as I got a message from the Brazilian side of the family asking where the English kids were!).  Add in the volunteers and flag carriers of various backgrounds (including a lot of head scarves but no burka that I saw) there was a pretty obvious mix of people through the games.

Ah yes, I admit I'd forgotten the post-war immigration part. And yes, there was a good ethnic mix in the people who took part. It's just that no specific mention was made of how good it is that GB is a colourful mix of cultures, it was just left in the background. Maybe they though they'd offend too many Daily Mail readers 

[alan sherman]

Or maybe they thought they'd be British about about it and present it without ramming it down people's throats?  Did you want a specific section thanking the Aussies for their contribution to bar work?

[ozpom]

I wouldn't complain 

How does "mention" become "ramming it down people's throats"? 

[JZS 600]

Just think of the Great British sportsmen (and women) in the past: Zola Budd,, Lennox Lewis,, Mo Farah,,,,
 
Hang on a minute!!!
 
Oh yeah, and the american bird who couldnt qualify for team america so is repersenting GB on the track,,,,,

[alan sherman]

Don't forget Wiggins (Born in Belgium to an Australian father - but grew up in London from the age of 7), Chris Froome - Kenyan but switched to British nationality (his parents or grandparents were british) to further his career.  Cavendish and Kennaugh are from the the Isle of Man so are British dependencies, not part of the UK.

I loved Mo Farrar's response to a journalists question about whether he would prefer to have been running for Somalia.  Pretty clear cut there where his loyalties are.

[Rusty]

Not wanting to get too Grahamm-esque but...

Yes, we, the people of Britain, who were being represented by the ceremonies. We, the British people who understand that while there are immigrants who take the piss and break the rules there are a lot of non-immigrants who do the same things and lot a of immigrants who do things right and make the UK a better place. If that doesn't include you then that's a pity.

I find it interesting that you believe you have a mandate to speak on behalf on the entire British people, except of course for the sizeable majority that would disagree with you for whom of course it's just 'a pity'.


And just how good is it that Britain is a colourful mix of alien cultures? Why can't it just be Britain? Surely that's what attracted all those cultures here in the first place? There's nothing good about Sharia law, child slavery, witchcraft, honour killings or polygamy, which appears to be the sort of cultural manifestations that are prevalent around here, or were you just thinking how you enjoy a curry?


You mention two newspapers that hold opposing points of view in an attempt to polarise and/or stereotype a disparate group of individuals that have no affiliation to either. Individuals that do however, have the ability and good sense to think for themselves.  If true to form the next weapon in the excuse arsenal would come in the form of ad Hominem attacks, so I'll leave this conversation there.  Just for the record, I'm also British, part of the British people, and No, you don't speak for me, just as Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, and David Cameron doesn't either.


Apparently that's 'a pity'.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 To be honest, thank God's it's over.  I should have loved it, but today the Olympics is more about corporate greed and national prestige and patriotism than anything else.  And what are all these professional athletes and sports persons doing there?
I heard one interesting comment on the radio as to what should actually be in the Olympics, one sports pundit offering the opinion, if any sport has it's biggest moment  elsewhere  then it probably shouldn't be in the Olympics.  That makes sense to me.  As much as I loved to see Bradley Wiggins win gold, not to mention get pissed and smoke a few roll ups, I don't understand why the road race and time trial are open to pros.
The coverage.  Please keep it off the news channels.  And thank god for Al Jazeera!   Second, do we have to be so focused on ourselves, and oh those painful ten times too long interviews with the winning (British only)  athletes.   The best coverage I found was on foreign news channels, free of the UK's self obsessed patriotism.
As for all you 'asylum seeking' anti-immigration EDL and BNP supporters, well the  UK wouldn't have won that many medals without a little immigration over the last few decades.   
As for those opening and closing ceremonies, I didn't watch them, I hate all that crap.  Sure some sort of ceremony is needed, but now it's just 'look at us' - 'we are better than you' throw a few hundred million at it patriotic bollocks exercise. 

So as we celebrate the achievements of the brightest and best of our young athletes at home, also spare a thought for the brightest and best of our young people in the armed forces, currently overseas fighting and dying for the rights of immigrants to come here and hate us.

The biggest numbers of 'asylum seekers' in the last few years coming to the UK have been Iraqi and Afghan.  That's cos the poor kids in the armed forces, who know nothing of the countries they are fighting in, or what they are fighting for, are over there fucking up countries for our rich leaders stupid global political fantasies.  We got fucked in Iraq, we are getting fucked in Afghanistan, as anybody with half a brain knew we would, it's time to get our good young boys and girls out of it and back home with their families where they belong. 
Meanwhile I watched "Is football racist" I think that's what it was called.  Sure amazing progress has been made in terms of racial tolerance.  But yeah, one point made by this programme was, if half the players are black or from other minorities, well where are all the black managers?  Good question.
 

To point out our differences as this current obsession with celebrating diversity does, is to divide into segments rather than unite as a whole.

As one friend put it to me.  I'll be happy when the day comes that I'm just Scottish, not an Asian Scot, or Scottish Muslim, just Scottish.  But we still have a long way to go Rusty.

[JZS 600]

I definitely think that there is room for an IAM Olympic Event!
 
Gold medal for observation, anyone!
 
Motorbike dressage?

[Slaninar]

There's nothing good about Sharia law, child slavery, witchcraft, honour killings or polygamy, which appears to be the sort of cultural manifestations that are prevalent around here, or were you just thinking how you enjoy a curry?

What's wrong with polygamy?!?     


Anyway, different cultures are different. The fact you percieve yours as "better" is a bit shortsighted, but I'm sure it's easier to look at the world in such way.

Most immigrants didn't come for British culture (and sure as hell not for the weather), but for the money. Or to save their necks. My country was bombed by "the allies" some 10 years ago and many people fled to Germany and England. To work, to live.

[JZS 600]

What about the sport then, that wasn't bad viewing, eh?

[Rusty]

What's wrong with polygamy? Multiple mother in laws! 

 

To point out our differences as this current obsession with celebrating diversity does, is to divide into segments rather than unite as a whole.

As one friend put it to me.  I'll be happy when the day comes that I'm just Scottish, not an Asian Scot, or Scottish Muslim, just Scottish.  But we still have a long way to go Rusty.

Indeed... on both sides. But you get what I'm driving at don't you, and we can't get there unless we are all part of the whole. All this talk of celebrating one set over another or focussing attention to this or that just perpetuates the differences, it's time we dropped it. I look at America and see the greatest amount of ethnic diversity on earth, yet when the band plays they all are proud to be an 'American'.

Britain has an established culture, and similarly all are invited to share in it and be proud of it. I don't believe there is anything Bnp or Edl in those sentiments, nor would I wish them to be construed in that way. As for the Olympics, I see it as a gathering of noble athletes that all do their countries proud, unfortunately for many (Britain included) the governments and leaders of those respective nations don't deserve such accolades themselves.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

But you get what I'm driving at don't you, and we can't get there unless we are all part of the whole. All this talk of celebrating one set over another or focussing attention to this or that just perpetuates the differences, it's time we dropped it.

I disagree celebrating our multi-cultural society is about bring all together, it should be about opening up cultures, learning about each other and coming together. 

I look at America and see the greatest amount of ethnic diversity on earth, yet when the band plays they all are proud to be an 'American'.

I look at America and see the richest nation in the world, with the biggest gap between rich and poor, a country that can't even provide basic health care and where many minorities live in ghettos.   I see a country that displays dangerous levels of patriotism and marginalises anybody who dares to take a stand or speak the truth "you are either with us or against us" - George W Bush.

Lets not take any lessons from the USA.

Britain has an established culture, and similarly all are invited to share in it and be proud of it.

Cultures are not set in stone, they are constantly evolving, immigration is part of that evolution. I welcome cultural progress.    As for being British, no thank-you, I'm looking forward to our referendum in 2014.  I'm Scottish first, European second, and British last, and well done to those Scottish and Welsh athletes who refused to sing God Save the Queen!

[richfzs]

Sounds like something you hear from a woman. You played football?

Thanks, I like to think I'm in touch with my feminine side 

No, I haven't played football. And nor would I, its far too dangerous. Not the game itself, but the w@nkers who play and think, because their role models get away with it, that they can get away with abusing the ref, and doing hatchet jobs on opposing players because they think they'll get away with it. Just one example, son of a friend of mine was 2 weeks from joining the army, and took part in a charity tournament - his legs were chopped out in a hideous foul, wrecked his achilles tendon, and delayed his army career by 6 months. The opposing player? Got off scot free, not even a yellow card - and he was playing on the fire service team, somebody supposedly a decent member of the community, but on the football field, he's a thug. Any why is he a thug? Because his role models are, they get way with it, no respect for the referee.

I'd be willing to boot anyone anyone in the shin with their shinnies on so we can gauge their reaction

Nobody is saying it doesn't hurt, when you do get a boot in the shin (well I'm not, anyway), its the way they whinge about it, like no other sport does. But my original point, was that they play act when they haven't been touched. Cheating, in effect - and we're back to abysmal role models.

[Slaninar]

Thanks, I like to think I'm in touch with my feminine side 

No, I haven't played football. And nor would I, its far too dangerous. Not the game itself, but the w@nkers who play and think, because their role models get away with it, that they can get away with abusing the ref, and doing hatchet jobs on opposing players because they think they'll get away with it.


Just one example, son of a friend of mine was 2 weeks from joining the army, and took part in a charity tournament - his legs were chopped out in a hideous foul, wrecked his achilles tendon, and delayed his army career by 6 months. The opposing player? Got off scot free, not even a yellow card - and he was playing on the fire service team, somebody supposedly a decent member of the community, but on the football field, he's a thug. Any why is he a thug? Because his role models are, they get way with it, no respect for the referee.

Shit happens. If you know how to take care of yourself, and if opponents aren't complete idiots, you should be fine 90% of the time. There is an unspoken agreement on what you can and can't do. You respect defenders, they respect you.

If that opposing player's start was out of place, someone should have taken care of him on first opportunity.

Nobody is saying it doesn't hurt, when you do get a boot in the shin (well I'm not, anyway), its the way they whinge about it, like no other sport does. But my original point, was that they play act when they haven't been touched. Cheating, in effect - and we're back to abysmal role models.

It's all a part of the game. You put pressure on opponents, on the ref. Try to make the best of it. While I hate fouls that deliberately injure other players (except when in retribution!), everything else is a part of the game. I truly respect players that can foul you without the ref seeing it. Just as I respect those that make it look like you've fouled them, when you haven't. It's almost the same skill as dribbling.

Once as kid in a local league game i got very frustrated. Got fouled and tackled a lot.  After sprinting past two guys pulling my shirt and shorts I got tackled from behind by the third guy. Managed to skip most of it, got some sloppy shot at goal, keeper bounced it into corner. I was furious with the ref! "What do I have to do to get a foul here?!?" The ref calmly replied: "fall down." 

Defenders who foul and tackle hard try to scare you and change your style of play. It's a challenge. Good teams cope with that no problems.

One exception is fixed games - when referees or certain players know what the result should be in the end. That is idiotic and quite common these days. Often catch myself trying to figure if they're playing for real in the first half when watching our local championship... or Italians.

[richfzs]

Thanks, think you've just illustrated why I have no time for football quite nicely.

[Rusty]

I disagree celebrating our multi-cultural society is about bring all together, it should be about opening up cultures, learning about each other and coming together.   

But instead it appears to be about the importing of cultures while making our own subservient to them. There isn't anything to celebrate in that - it's idiotic. Again there was no mandate for this, it is purely enforced social engineering, and those that are marginalised are those who are 'impolite' enough to mention it.

As for being British, no thank-you, I'm looking forward to our referendum in 2014.  I'm Scottish first, European second, and British last, and well done to those Scottish and Welsh athletes who refused to sing God Save the Queen!

I was going to point that out when you mentioned your Muslim friend wanting to be 'Scottish' (not British). The above comment typifies exactly the situation we're in. Had I stated that I am English first and not British, then within seconds the familiar EDL/BNP slurs would be aired. I too look forward to your referendum, I hope it goes well for you. I also look forward to our own in/out EU referendum, because I'm English and I wish to governed only by an English democracy.

Finally, while it's fair to say that I'm not the least inclined to feel Royalist, I'd much rather stand for the queen than bow to mecca. Such is my birthright, and just as you value your Scots heritage and independence I have equal right to value mine. Therefore I do take umbridge when some folk try to give it away in an attempt to prove their right on credentials.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 

But instead it appears to be about the importing of cultures while making our own subservient to them.

 Culture evolves.  Multi-culturism is about bring people together.  I've been to a number of community multicultural events  and great fun they were too.  As for us and them, I don't get that, I'm not interested, I don't care about colour, race or religion, there is only one race and that's the human race.
 

I was going to point that out when you mentioned your Muslim friend wanting to be 'Scottish' (not British). The above comment typifies exactly the situation we're in.

Recent pols have shown that Scottish Asians are more Scottish than white ethnic Scots.  The Scottish National Party today takes the lion's share of the Asian vote.

Had I stated that I am English first and not British, then within seconds the familiar EDL/BNP slurs would be aired.

You've lost me there!  Talking of sport, and umm, motorcycles, one great man did much for his country.  Carl Fogarty.  When he won a race, he always picked up the St Georges flag, and good on him.   

I too look forward to your referendum, I hope it goes well for you.

Cheers.  Fingers crossed.

I also look forward to our own in/out EU referendum, because I'm English and I wish to governed only by an English democracy.

How do you mean?  Right now England can't have an in/out EU referendum.  Even if Scotland leaves the union, England still can't have such a referendum.  And nor can England govern itself.  Too often the English think they are Britain, they are not.

Finally, while it's fair to say that I'm not the least inclined to feel Royalist, I'd much rather stand for the queen than bow to mecca.

Again, what the foc are you on about?   You are starting to sound just a little weird. 

Therefore I do take umbridge when some folk try to give it away in an attempt to prove their right on credentials.

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the Queen

Never have sung it, never will.
 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Dunno why that last bit came out so small, and of course there's no darn edit button.

But here it is;

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,May by thy mighty aid,Victory bring.May he sedition hush,and like a torrent rush,Rebellious Scots to crush,God save the Queen

[Rusty]

I can see the objection, but I'm a land of hope and glory man myself. Or perhaps Elgar.

  Right now England can't have an in/out EU referendum.  Even if Scotland leaves the union, England still can't have such a referendum.  And nor can England govern itself. 

Who says? Who can deny us a referendum? If the populace demand one then it is their right to have one. England has governed itself for a thousand years why should it appear to you that this is no longer possible? How odd. So what your saying here is that Scotland being the most parochial nation of the union can suddenly govern itself quite happily, having had no recent experience and lacking the finance to support itself, but England can't?

Too often the English think they are Britain, they are not.

It's usually the left that use the term British in such an incorrect manner. It's part of that all inclusivity that they preach which is then snubbed by those it is meant to appease. Personally I'd ditch the term. We don't even have a tick box for English on our forms any more, they insist on a box marked British.

Again, what the foc are you on about?   You are starting to sound just a little weird.

It's quite simple. There appears to be a trend amongst current politicians and left wing trendies to show how cosmopolitan they are by destroying or giving away much of our heritage. My view is that they can give away as much as they like of that which belongs to them, but nothing at all of what belongs to others, as it isn't theirs to give. What's complicated or weird about that?


By the way this software is shite I'm struggling to separate the text.

[Rusty]

I can see the objection, but I'm a land of hope and glory man myself. Or perhaps Elgar

That should of course read or perhaps 'Holst'. Can't edit posts.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

I think this going a bit off topic, but;

Scotland can call a consultative referendum on almost anything it wants.  That's becuase we have a government.  We have the strange situation of having a majority nationalist government in a minority or coalition parliament.  The impossible has just become possible.

Who says? Who can deny us a referendum?

You have to have a government before you can call a referendum on England being within the EU.  England does not have it's own parliament.   England does not have a government.

In any case leaving the EU won't happen, UK, Scotland or a future England.  It's pretty much economic suicide.  It sounds good, plays to the audience well, may get you votes, but those politicians calling for in/out referendum, well most of em will shit their pants if there wish was granted.

It's usually the left that use the term British in such an incorrect manner.

Certainly Rusty could do with figuring out the difference between England, English, Britain and British.

There appears to be a trend amongst current politicians and left wing trendies to show how cosmopolitan they are by destroying or giving away much of our heritage. My view is that they can give away as much as they like of that which belongs to them, but nothing at all of what belongs to others, as it isn't theirs to give. What's complicated or weird about that?

Other than it's meaningless sound bite drivel, nothing.
 

[Rusty]

Congratulations I see you've reached the Ad Hominem stage. 


You may hold the odd personal notion that England has no government/Parliament but that doesn't make it so. Do we live in a democracy or no? As for the old chestnut about economic suicide. We currently export more elsewhere than we do to Europe, it's simply a matter of strengthening those markets.


On the second point Rusty knows this - The difference between English and British, is that England and the English are the core. 'British' or 'Britain' refers to the whole i.e. inclusion of the subsidised bits tacked on.


And finally, speaking of sound bite drivel. (Oh How flippantly a person's views are dismissed when they don't concur) especially by one who recently accused the Americans of dangerous levels of patriotism possessed of a 'With us or agin us' mentality. That was the phrase wasn't it?  As I'm clearly not with you I suppose that last comment was to only be expected. Pot kettle anyone?


I'll end on Slaninars honest comment. Being an immigrant (from danger) himself he reminds us that "most immigrants didn't come here for the culture they came for the money". Well said Slaninar, had I said that even though it were true I would have been castigated by the very same people who advocate enforced multiculturalism. Hand wringing and accusations of BNP and EDL sympathies would abound, just as their names were raised earlier simply because I offered an opposing point of view.


Off topic indeed, back to the Olympics then eh.