Date: 15-06-24  Time: 22:50 pm

Author Topic: The front sprocket nut and washer saga  (Read 50930 times)

Lawrence

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #125 on: 16 February 2013, 11:41:42 am »
I paid £7 (with a trade card, iirc it was about £10 without) for a 32mm socket from Halfords.  If you do it at the same time as the chain then make sure you undo it before you cut the chain off  :rolleyes

Dead Eye

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #126 on: 16 February 2013, 05:33:02 pm »
Speaking from experience there Lawrence?  :lol

Lawrence

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #127 on: 16 February 2013, 05:49:42 pm »
Yes, but I have an electric impact wrench which took it straight off :)

alexanderfitu

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Re: Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #128 on: 17 February 2013, 12:41:43 am »
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-94PC-1-2-1-4-SOCKET-SCREWDRIVER-TOOL-TORX-BITS-SET-RATCHET-KIT-BIT-/190682579772?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item2c6591433c

Sorted!


Careful there Alex, cheap tools are made of Cheddar (or brie if you're unlucky) and are a false economy. At best, they'll trash themselves, at worst they'll wreck what you're working on and bring a world of pain.

Haven't got any myself, but have only heard good things about halfords pro kit. Expensive full price but nearly always on offer, at which point it becomes sensible - good tools will reward you many times over

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True, and agreed with halfords pro stuff, I have had a 250 pounds halfords kit for 5 years, lots of abuse and its stood up pretty well!


Although with that on ebay, if anything breaks just file a paypal disput and get the money back, :)

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #129 on: 17 February 2013, 07:40:38 am »
Picked up my new nut and gasket yesterday from Poole Yamaha and was asking about why they come lose and he said it was due to after market sprockets being thinker than the originals so it kind of makes sense now. And it only meant to affect one in every 1000 fazers. So doing mine just in chase  :D
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alexanderfitu

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #130 on: 17 February 2013, 09:17:40 am »
That makes no sense, if that was the case then a thicker nut wouldn't help!

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darrsi

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #131 on: 17 February 2013, 10:57:17 am »
Picked up my new nut and gasket yesterday from Poole Yamaha and was asking about why they come lose and he said it was due to after market sprockets being thinker than the originals so it kind of makes sense now. And it only meant to affect one in every 1000 fazers. So doing mine just in chase  :D


Go back to that nice man at Poole Yamaha and hand him a bucket of water, then tell him that his pants are well and truly on fire!
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packie

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #132 on: 17 February 2013, 11:49:08 am »
That makes no sense, if that was the case then a thicker nut wouldn't help!

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Exactly, the guy in Poole is talking poop!!....


It would have to be a thinner nut again if aftermarket sprockets were bigger. Its obvious that the small few threads on the original nut just didn't have enuff bite and grip and that the lock washer failed dismally too. They sorted one (the nut), but its up to me go sort the lock washer.


The lock washer is a useless addition unless it is secured onto the sprocket IMO. It is designed to stop the nut from opening and it didn't do its job either because it just turned with the nut. I think that if you bond the lock washer onto the sprocket with JB Weld, or Superglue or with something along that lines, and if the bond is solid and secure, then it would be impossible for any nut including the original to work free if the tabs are over the nut properly and the washer is bonded securely to the sprocket. That is what i'm going doing with mine along with thread locking the nut and giving a few extra NMs of torque pressure as well.
« Last Edit: 17 February 2013, 11:50:32 am by packie »

limax2

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #133 on: 17 February 2013, 04:48:34 pm »
Picked up my new nut and gasket yesterday from Poole Yamaha and was asking about why they come lose and he said it was due to after market sprockets being thinker than the originals so it kind of makes sense now. And it only meant to affect one in every 1000 fazers. So doing mine just in chase  :D
Steady on guys, this all depends on how you read the word "thinker" in the above post. Is it meant to be "thicker" or "thinner"? :\ .
I very much dought it is thicker as all the original Yamaha sprockets I have measured have been between 9.58 to 9.64mm, which is right on the top limit of becoming a tight fit in a 530 size chain. Theoretically a thicker sprocket (or lock washer) would give slightly more thread engagement with the old nut and very slightly less with the new nut. I have never measured aftermarket sprockets but I suspect they may be a bit thinner.
If a replacement sprocket is thinner then the guys comment does make a little bit of sence with the old nut, although he is still barking up the wrong tree. The old thin nut overruns the shaft thread by about 1mm and a thinner sprocket would make it worse. Within reason it would not have much effect on the new 12mm thick nut.
The real issue, which Yamaha acknowledged, was that some bikes had gearbox shafts fitted that were below tolerance on the diameter of the thread. A minimum O.D. of 17.5mm was the figure given. (I have only measured three and the were all around 17.85mm O.D.).
In the distant past when this topic was lively (on the old forum I think) I did a drawing which would illustrate the above ramblings on thickness. I will now attemp to post the drawing on here.

limax2

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #134 on: 17 February 2013, 04:53:19 pm »
Here should be the drawing.
 
Edit. A bit bigger than intended  ;) .
« Last Edit: 17 February 2013, 04:55:28 pm by limax2 »

limax2

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #135 on: 17 February 2013, 05:09:36 pm »
along with thread locking the nut and giving a few extra NMs of torque pressure as well.
Along with the new 12mm wide nut Yamaha U.K. recommended a torque of 90 Nm instead of the original 70 Nm. I agree with the thread locking compound but I would be very wary of exceeding the 90 Nm torque figure. Your choice of course but personally I have gone for thread lock and stayed at 70 Nm.

darrsi

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #136 on: 17 February 2013, 05:23:51 pm »
Still don't believe the 1 in 1000 statement though.


Somebody said on here recently there's 8000 Fazers in the UK, there's simply no way only 8 people have been affected, there's more than that on this forum alone that we know about, and i'm 1 of them!
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limax2

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #137 on: 17 February 2013, 05:36:48 pm »
Still don't believe the 1 in 1000 statement though.

Thankfully I'm not one of them, but I don't believe it either.

darrsi

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #138 on: 17 February 2013, 05:41:55 pm »
Still don't believe the 1 in 1000 statement though.

Thankfully I'm not one of them, but I don't believe it either.


Mine managed to fuse itself on rather than strip threads or fall off, so fortunately it wasn't going to go anywhere in a hurry, judging by the fun and games my mechanic had getting it off to replace it.


But i still believe there should have been a recall, because it is a known fault, and a dangerous one at that.
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packie

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #139 on: 17 February 2013, 06:55:10 pm »
along with thread locking the nut and giving a few extra NMs of torque pressure as well.
Along with the new 12mm wide nut Yamaha U.K. recommended a torque of 90 Nm instead of the original 70 Nm. I agree with the thread locking compound but I would be very wary of exceeding the 90 Nm torque figure. Your choice of course but personally I have gone for thread lock and stayed at 70 Nm.


I wasn't aware of the new recommended 90 nm torque from Yam UK. I was going to add another 5 nm on top of the original 70 nm for a 75 total. Might add 10 nm for a 80 nm total with locking glue just for a bit of balance between the two figures.

But for me, glueing the tab washer is the key if you can get glue strong enuff to bond the two together. You could have your nut finger-tight and it won't be going anywhere if the tab washer can't move and the tabs are properly over the nut.
« Last Edit: 17 February 2013, 07:00:24 pm by packie »

Chris

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #140 on: 12 March 2013, 05:49:12 pm »
Went to my local yamaha supplier, long story short I couldn't have it for free but they only charged me £2.44 for it so can't complain at that, cost me about the same in petrol to go and fetch it. haha.

It wouldn't be fun if it was easy, I just wish it wasn't this much fun.

darrsi

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #141 on: 25 March 2013, 02:02:46 pm »
I'm gonna be changing my chain/sprockets soon, as well as my rear disc (which has seized bolts again  :( ) and was wondering if the agreed torque for the new sprocket nut was around the 80Nm mark, with a bit of Loctite thrown in for good measure?
I noticed that it has been advised by Yamaha that it should be 90Nm but i don't really want to push my luck!
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Dead Eye

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #142 on: 25 March 2013, 02:54:04 pm »
Mine is currently on at 90Nm with no thread lock - simply because I didn't have any at the time. Nut is still present :)

packie

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #143 on: 25 March 2013, 03:18:31 pm »
I'm gonna be changing my chain/sprockets soon, as well as my rear disc (which has seized bolts again  :( ) and was wondering if the agreed torque for the new sprocket nut was around the 80Nm mark, with a bit of Loctite thrown in for good measure?
I noticed that it has been advised by Yamaha that it should be 90Nm but i don't really want to push my luck!
I was going to torque up to 90nm myself, but after getting to about 80nm, I got a feel on the pressure that if I pushed it any further, it would have stripped the threads. So i have about 70-80nm, locktite and some wire on the outside acting as a precaution.

So Darrsi...I'd say use your judgement too when doing it and don't go at it hammer n tongs.

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« Last Edit: 25 March 2013, 03:20:02 pm by packie »

darrsi

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #144 on: 25 March 2013, 04:03:56 pm »
It's not gonna be me doing it, i've decided to let the bike shop change my rear disc after the nightmare i had last time, so i'll get the sprockets and chain done at the same time while the wheel's off.
Unfortunately i need the bike all the time for work so rather than me hit a brick wall through lack of tools or sheer frustration it's better that they do it for me and get it right first time!
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packie

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #145 on: 25 March 2013, 04:17:14 pm »
Unfortunately i need the bike all the time for work so rather than me hit a brick wall through lack of tools or sheer frustration it's better that they do it for me and get it right first time!
Ha ha...wishful thinking!....even bike shops can fail to get it right first time!!


Enceladus

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #146 on: 25 March 2013, 04:36:57 pm »
just spotted this.
no idea if my bike has had this done or not.
got a rough idea (and i mean rough!) where to look etc, but can someone explain really simply so that an idiot like me can understand!
thanks :)

darrsi

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #147 on: 25 March 2013, 04:48:17 pm »
Unfortunately i need the bike all the time for work so rather than me hit a brick wall through lack of tools or sheer frustration it's better that they do it for me and get it right first time!
Ha ha...wishful thinking!....even bike shops can fail to get it right first time!!
They're not too bad where i go, and if they mess it up then at least i know i would've messed it up even more!!
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Dead Eye

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #148 on: 25 March 2013, 04:52:41 pm »
just spotted this.
no idea if my bike has had this done or not.
got a rough idea (and i mean rough!) where to look etc, but can someone explain really simply so that an idiot like me can understand!
thanks :)

Just remove the black cover that is just above and forward of the gear selector - if you are unsure its the one where the chain disappears behind it. Should be a nut holding the sprocket on and it will be incredibly obvious. If it isn't there then worry, if it is, then you're probably fine :) All you need is a 10mm spanner / socket plus an Allen key - no idea what size, but I think its about 5mm? I have about 4 sets and have managed to mix them up so I just try until I get the right size :P

darrsi

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Re: The front sprocket nut and washer saga
« Reply #149 on: 25 March 2013, 06:58:59 pm »
just spotted this.
no idea if my bike has had this done or not.
got a rough idea (and i mean rough!) where to look etc, but can someone explain really simply so that an idiot like me can understand!
thanks :)

Just remove the black cover that is just above and forward of the gear selector - if you are unsure its the one where the chain disappears behind it. Should be a nut holding the sprocket on and it will be incredibly obvious. If it isn't there then worry, if it is, then you're probably fine :) All you need is a 10mm spanner / socket plus an Allen key - no idea what size, but I think its about 5mm? I have about 4 sets and have managed to mix them up so I just try until I get the right size :P


"...Should be a nut..."  :lol
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