Date: 15-06-24  Time: 21:11 pm

Author Topic: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?  (Read 34244 times)

Skippernick

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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #75 on: 08 August 2012, 09:21:19 pm »
Steve66 i feel for you not as bad but contacted my regional guy a week ago he said the observer would contact  me with in the week and nothing so far.
I think the IAM itself are quite professional its the local volunteers who are crap.
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pitternator

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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #76 on: 09 August 2012, 08:04:12 am »
You must remember that anyone can set up an IAM group as such if you have the qualification...and the standard of training will be that of the quality of the observers the group has. As such there will be variance in standards and attitudes.The IAM book serves to give some continuity , but if you can join a group with pro active and enthusiastic members , it is a real bonus.
I still reiterate my single point I have pushed throughout this thread ...dont think speed, think safe use of speed.If you cannot practice restraint of speed, you aint an advanced rider and you may well overcook it at some point.Ask any police rider how they judge a  safe speed !...its from years of training , which most of us will never achieve. Its why I also comment on this throwing out of the rulebook on a rideout. Skill levels may be too diverse to just simply follow the rider in front.( who could be far more skilled and confidant than yourself).
Another way of looking at it , is to ask yourself just why so many motorcyclists are KSI every year ....and no it aint just down to other drivers.

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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #77 on: 09 August 2012, 10:11:19 am »
Steve66 i feel for you not as bad but contacted my regional guy a week ago he said the observer would contact  me with in the week and nothing so far.
I think the IAM itself are quite professional its the local volunteers who are crap.

i think the key word there is "volunteers". 139 quid might be a large sum to me but if the guys doing the instructing were charging full rates it would be an awful lot more - in retrospect i might have reminded myself of that before posting.

first meet hopefully before christmas(!) and i still have an open mind...
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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #78 on: 09 August 2012, 12:04:12 pm »
groups vary from place to place m8 - as already been said in previous posts.
 
can believe some of the aggro which I perceived in previous posts about the IAM - imho it works for me but I may have been lucky with the local group - good guys and good riders/teachers.
 
being part of the IAM doesnt mean that you need to ride like saints - it just gives you better observation and therefore more time to plan.
 
all these, of course, are my own opinions.
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MEM62

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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #79 on: 09 August 2012, 04:02:23 pm »
I joined a local group and it improved my riding a lot.  Unfortunately, I was unable to reach test standard and therefore never took it.

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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #80 on: 10 August 2012, 03:59:09 pm »
Thats interesting ....sounds like a challenge for someone....get you thru your test.! I know I took my test 13 yrs ago, but it never felt  an unattainable standard, but did need some thought / study , plus a lot of readjusting my mindset to pass.I dont believe its something most couldnt do with the right tuition.

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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #81 on: 10 August 2012, 08:45:49 pm »
 :agree

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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #82 on: 11 August 2012, 09:35:49 am »
Whats the I ams, ROSPA, et al  view to filtering?
I am a riding god and all my accidents have been someone else's fault..

I do have issues filtering though and would be genuinely interested in learning more
and taking on some views.
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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #83 on: 11 August 2012, 10:23:52 am »
4 - FILTERING SKILLS. 
MotorCycle RoadCraft, page 126, 139 and 140.


Used when applicable, to make progress, usually between, stationary/slow moving lanes of vehicles.

 

Speed to be about no more than 10 mph higher than other vehicles though not at speeds above 30 mph. 



If traffic is held up by, say, temporary traffic lights and a large safety margin (space) is possible then, perhaps, by judicious use of the offside of the road, for example, then higher speeds may be both possible and desirable,

(space + view = speed). 

But this is really overtaking stationary traffic rather than filtering. 



When filtering past large vehicles extra caution is required due to the greatly restricted view.



Increased potential danger arises when vehicles are stationary or very slow moving – cycles, pedestrians, animals or vehicles crossing are a distinct possibility.




 When traffic is stopped, at traffic lights for example, look for traffic flow from the road crossing yours. 

How long is the traffic queue on your road? 

What colour are the lights on the other road? 

Can you see any red/green “men” on any of the lights? 

These things will give information as to how long it is likely to be before the lights change. 

And, therefore whether to filter or not 




 Part of the art of filtering comes from knowing when to show restraint. 

Avoid being drawn into a “race” with other vehicles.  If need be, allow them to go.

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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #84 on: 11 August 2012, 10:49:38 am »
Its the overtaking type for me. I seem to find myself waiting
in queues when others tootle on by.
Seems to me that it relys on the oncoming traffic to make allowances
and that bothers me.

On original topic, I did a bike safe and found the police rider took risks I wouldn't
and the whole make progress, use the bike to its advantage thing to be taken to extreme.
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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #85 on: 11 August 2012, 11:53:18 am »
I've been communting in and out of London for 14 years, not filtering through traffic is NOT an option!

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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #86 on: 11 August 2012, 01:03:25 pm »
I've been communting in and out of London for 14 years, not filtering through traffic is NOT an option!

x2 (although I only moved out of London and, it follows, started commuting back in) 4 years ago. I think my filtering technique, developed over that time, may be ay odds with passing the IAM test...

We'll see I guess.
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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #87 on: 11 August 2012, 04:38:55 pm »
Yes, be nice to hear what the Iam's view on it is.

I always think that between lanes is filtering and I like that do it lots
in and out of Sheffield.
Going down the outside is overtaking and different as there is oncoming traffic.
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Grahamm

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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #88 on: 11 August 2012, 06:28:12 pm »
I think the IAM itself are quite professional its the local volunteers who are crap.

The operative word there is volunteers.

Observers do the job because they love biking and want to help others out. The only payment they get is the bit of cash you give them to pay for the fuel they use, nothing to cover their time etc that they're teaching you.

If you want to pay for Advanced Tuition, I'm sure there's plenty of places that will charge you a hundred quid for a couple of hours...

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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #89 on: 11 August 2012, 06:49:09 pm »
Yes, be nice to hear what the Iam's view on it is.

A quick precis from the IAM's "How To Be A Better Rider" book (BTW although, when I first got this book I thought "this is just stating the bleedin' obvious", however the point is that it puts all the information together in one place)

Quote
There are three key points to bear in mind:

* The speed of the traffic through which you'll filter.

* The speed differential between your machine and the traffic around you.

* The amount of space available to you.

Filtering in traffic flowing at speeds above 15-20mph should be avoided as vehicles at this speed can change direction with little or no warning. Also the speed differential shouldn't be more than 10-15mph above that of the slower moving traffic to allow you sufficient time to react to hazards . [I was taught this as the "20 delta 15" rule]

It also advises to scan both the near and middle-distance so you can keep an eye on what traffic close to you is doing, but also get advance warning of what may happen ahead, eg traffic lights changing, people indicating to turn right which will stop traffic ahead of you, pedestrians who may step out without looking.

You should also plan your filtering as a set of "stepping stones", ie there's a gap in front of the car in front of the one I'm now behind, so I'll move up to that and then look to go to the next gap, but if something changes, I won't find myself stuck in a bad position next to a car.

Another piece of advice is to always have an escape route planned, ie look to see that you can stop, evade or accelerate if something unexpectedly changes such as a driver making a move without checking their mirrors, someone stepping out from behind a high-sided vehicle, a car stopping and leaving a gap to let someone out of a side road etc.

If you don't filter when doing your Test and there's no reason not to then you could get marked down for not Making Progress, but, by the same token, filtering recklessly and causing someone else to have to adjust their speed or direction is also grounds for a fail, so you need to think carefully about what you're doing.

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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #90 on: 11 August 2012, 08:18:10 pm »
That seems to blend filtering and overtaking into the same thing.
So are we saying that overtaking into oncoming traffic is ok if slow enough.
All city rush hour overtakes involve oncoming traffic.

Also doesn't not making progress and riding within your limits and comfort zone
contradict each other.
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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #91 on: 11 August 2012, 08:38:02 pm »
That seems to blend filtering and overtaking into the same thing.

I'd say they were different subsets of the same skill, it's just a matter of speed and positioning. Another piece of advice is to treat filtering as an on-going series of overtakes.

Quote
So are we saying that overtaking into oncoming traffic is ok if slow enough. All city rush hour overtakes involve oncoming traffic.

As mentioned, it's only a no-no if you make someone else feel the need to take avoiding action. Coming back from my holiday yesterday there was a long line of traffic approaching a pedestrian crossing so I took several opportunities (not to mention great delight ;) ) in moving into the opposite lane and pass several cars in one go, then making a pre-planned drop back into a gap between the rear of one car and the front of another when there was traffic coming the other way .

Quote
Also doesn't not making progress and riding within your limits and comfort zone contradict each other.

Nope, because as you get more practice and experience you find your limits increase and your comfort zone gets bigger :)

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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #92 on: 12 August 2012, 10:30:19 am »
You're assuming I need more practice and experience.
There's a section on my commute that involves overtaking into oncoming traffic.
I don't many many bikes do. No amount of training in the world is going to make me
put myself in that position. So will I never pass an 'advanced' test due to lack of progress.
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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #93 on: 12 August 2012, 10:50:02 am »
You're assuming I need more practice and experience.
There's a section on my commute that involves overtaking into oncoming traffic.
I don't many many bikes do. No amount of training in the world is going to make me
put myself in that position. So will I never pass an 'advanced' test due to lack of progress.

It's a good point; there's a distinction between being 'able' to and being 'willing' to, and it seems tough being penalised simply because you're not willing to risk a particular move.
I've still not met any of the IAM team so it'll interesting to see where they draw the line.
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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #94 on: 12 August 2012, 08:35:27 pm »
Do let us know how you get on
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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #95 on: 12 August 2012, 10:36:43 pm »
You're assuming I need more practice and experience.

Well, yes, because I don't (or didn't) know how much riding you've done etc.

Quote
There's a section on my commute that involves overtaking into oncoming traffic. I don't many many bikes do. No amount of training in the world is going to make me put myself in that position. So will I never pass an 'advanced' test due to lack of progress.

Err, now you're making assumptions! :)

Just because other bikers do it, doesn't mean that it's sensible (eg treating the gap between two lines of traffic as a "bikes only" lane!)

"Making progress" isn't necessarily a simple matter of "do this, don't do that" because it's very dependant on the situation at the time and the flip-side is "riding with due restraint", ie knowing when it's better to hold back.

If there's on-coming traffic, holding back may be the best thing to do. If, on the other hand, there's nothing coming, there's no side turnings, places where pedestrians could suddenly appear from etc and you stay sitting in the traffic instead of using the ability of a bike to move up the traffic, you might get marked down for not making progress.

The best thing, of course, is actually to go out there with an Observer and get their comments.

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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #96 on: 14 August 2012, 01:08:32 pm »
Thats interesting ....sounds like a challenge for someone....get you thru your test.! I know I took my test 13 yrs ago, but it never felt  an unattainable standard, but did need some thought / study , plus a lot of readjusting my mindset to pass.I dont believe its something most couldnt do with the right tuition.
I got a lot from it but got to a stage where I had quite a few obseved runs and my 'score' at the end of each run was no longer improving.  Others were already being put in for their tests with a similar number of runs.  I asked my observer about that on the final run I did and the best advice he could offer was 'Yes, I can see you have a problem with your riding'.  So I didn't bother going back. 
Personally I an quite happy with the standard of my riding.  A mate of mine who is a Police motorcyle rider was complimentary as was an instructor with whom I had a days advanced riding tuition that was thrown in with a bike I bought.       

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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #97 on: 14 August 2012, 04:54:15 pm »
I got a lot from it but got to a stage where I had quite a few obseved runs and my 'score' at the end of each run was no longer improving.  Others were already being put in for their tests with a similar number of runs.  I asked my observer about that on the final run I did and the best advice he could offer was 'Yes, I can see you have a problem with your riding'.  So I didn't bother going back. 

That's a shame.

My local group (Solent) have now added the post of "Associate Co-ordinator", someone who you can have a quiet chat with if you feel that you're not with the right Observer or things aren't working out the way you like and they can look into matters on your behalf and, if you want, get you a new Observer.

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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #98 on: 14 August 2012, 10:59:13 pm »
Some of these posts are incredibly hillarious, and obviously people are talking about IAM and havent got a clue what there talking about, Its just a shame that people asking questions are taking advice from the above.  If you attempted to overtake into moving oncoming traffic When being assessed by a class 1 police examiner you would  fail immediately.  :lol
 
Please continue........... ;)
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Re: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?
« Reply #99 on: 15 August 2012, 10:18:07 am »


That's a shame.

My local group (Solent) have now added the post of "Associate Co-ordinator", someone who you can have a quiet chat with if you feel that you're not with the right Observer or things aren't working out the way you like and they can look into matters on your behalf and, if you want, get you a new Observer.

It is a bit of a shame as I would have liked to have taken the test.  However, as I said, I still got a lot from it and still use the system when I ride.  Having been on bikes for the past 34 years I don't need a piece of paper to confirm that I am a competent rider.  The group I was with did set up a mentoring scheme in which I expressed interest but no-one took it any further so after the last comment from the observer I just didn't see any point in going back.  The real shame is that I would have liked to have remained involved with the group but you can't hang in there as an associate forever.