Date: 26-01-21  Time: 20:37 PM

Author Topic: None starter  (Read 887 times)

cojonesdeloro

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None starter
« on: 10 October 2020, 07:44:42 PM »
Eyup you lot :)
Recently bought another 600 FZS, this is a 99 and was bought as a none runner (stood for 6 years!!!) I have a good spark and have stripped and ultra sonic cleaned the carbs, new plugs and air filter, it turns over strong but wont fire. Any ideas guys?

robby boy

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Re: None starter
« Reply #1 on: 10 October 2020, 10:32:08 PM »
Have you replaced the fuel, modern fuel doesn't like sitting around, it seams to go stale and not want to burn, have you tried taking the plugs out and adding a little fuel into each cylinder?
If you worried about falling off your bike, you'd never get on.

darrsi

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Re: None starter
« Reply #2 on: 11 October 2020, 07:53:27 AM »
Have you switched the tank fuel tap back on?


Try it on centre stand with the side stand up.


Use some contact cleaner spray (NOT degreaser or WD40) on your ignition barrel, spray some on your key and jiggle it about a bit in the lock.
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cojonesdeloro

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Re: None starter
« Reply #3 on: 11 October 2020, 08:22:04 AM »
Thanks lads, yea Im using new fuel, tank is off and Im feedind direct in to the pipe that fits on to the tap, plugs are new and I have a good spark on each pot, ive not tried fuel in to the pots yet, I have a new fuel pump and its working as it should, ignition is working as it should although the key is a bit sticky in the barrel. Its got me stumped, if I have a spark and fuel where is my bang? 🤔🤔

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Re: None starter
« Reply #4 on: 11 October 2020, 09:38:54 AM »
compression test time, if you are absolutly sure you are definatly getting fuel then i would be looking at slightly stuck open valves

darrsi

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Re: None starter
« Reply #5 on: 11 October 2020, 11:52:57 AM »
I know it sounds daft, but pump the clutch lever a few times then hold it in when pressing the ignition, in case the clutch plates are stuck together due to oil draining from them over time.
« Last Edit: 19 October 2020, 08:51:08 AM by darrsi »
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Disorderlypunk

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Re: None starter
« Reply #6 on: 11 October 2020, 02:21:49 PM »
ooh, another thought, are your ht leads going to the correct cylinders,,
havent said if your getting any pops and bangs or anything so im
also after trying to start and it not working can you smell fuel vapour from the exhaust?

BBROWN1664

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Re: None starter
« Reply #7 on: 11 October 2020, 05:41:13 PM »
before getting too carried away, I bought a non-runner which I went through the basics on.
Good spark, plugs getting wet.
Turned out the coils had been connected back to front on the low tension side meaning plug 1 & 4 were firing when 2&3 should have been.

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cojonesdeloro

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Re: None starter
« Reply #8 on: 11 October 2020, 07:30:23 PM »
Cheers lads, yea looked in to the ht order 2day, all is as standard, 1-4 2-3 I hate to let this beat mebut I might just punt this one on😓

TOM VR46

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Re: None starter
« Reply #9 on: 11 October 2020, 09:01:33 PM »
Just a wee thought. You said you have temp fuel going to fuel pump. Is pump working ? As you have owned another Fazer youll know that pump will click  a few times when ignition is turned on.  Then if no firing are your plugs getting wet or even damp.

BBROWN1664

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Re: None starter
« Reply #10 on: 12 October 2020, 08:23:19 AM »
Cheers lads, yea looked in to the ht order 2day, all is as standard, 1-4 2-3 I hate to let this beat mebut I might just punt this one on😓

On mine, the HT side (engine side) of the coils was correct. IT was the low tension (bike side) that was incorrect. You should have a red/black going to each coil but the other two wrires are critical. Orange to teh coil that does 1&4 (left) and Grey to the one that does 2&3 (right).
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cojonesdeloro

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Re: None starter
« Reply #11 on: 12 October 2020, 09:37:54 AM »
Some good suggestions here lads🙂👍 Ill do a compressiin check and check the coil conections, the last owner fitted a new coil so checking tge backs was something I didnt look at. Ill report back.😎👍

cojonesdeloro

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Re: None starter
« Reply #12 on: 12 October 2020, 06:50:13 PM »
So tonight  I put fuel in each pot, nothing, not even a fart, double checked for spark and its as fat as ya like, also checked coil conections and all is correct front and back. My boss is lending me his compression tester 2moz but I am fearing the worse for this F lads🤕🤕

BBROWN1664

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Re: None starter
« Reply #13 on: 12 October 2020, 08:11:39 PM »
if you put the choke full on and turn it over a few times, do the plugs get wet?
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cojonesdeloro

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Re: None starter
« Reply #14 on: 12 October 2020, 09:52:36 PM »
Plugs seem dry. 👍

TOM VR46

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Re: None starter
« Reply #15 on: 13 October 2020, 05:51:12 AM »
Another wee thought. You said its got new fuel pump. Is it definitely pumping fuel through. You could pull plug cap of one of the plugs and turn over a few times and then take plug out and it should them definitely be wet. If not wet , no fuel getting through. If wet then you could heat plugs.
Ive heated plugs before to kick an engine into life.  Just take plugs out , pop then onto a wee gas cooker and heat the end of the plugs.  You have to get a good bit of heat in them , and then without burning your hands ( good gloves) get them in as quick as possible trying to keep as much heat in them as possible. They dont have to be properly tightened , just in there. And then fire her up. If theres fuel in there , with heat and spark she should fire up.

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Re: None starter
« Reply #16 on: 13 October 2020, 10:00:37 AM »
Plugs seem dry. 👍

No fuel is getting to the cylinders then. They should "flood" if the engine doesn't start. Check your choke lever is working and have another look at the idle jets.
BEfore all of that though, crack open the float bowl drain screws and see if you actually have fuel in the bowls.
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cojonesdeloro

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Re: None starter
« Reply #17 on: 17 October 2020, 06:18:44 PM »
Almost listed it on the bay today but had a look at the TPC after watching a YT vid, I can set it to 5000rpm but soon as I crank it over and check again its back to 10k, dies this tell us anything lads? P.S float bowls are full and I smell fuel at the pipe, plugs are wet just didnt look obviouse as they are still shiney. 👍

darrsi

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Re: None starter
« Reply #18 on: 18 October 2020, 07:17:33 AM »
Almost listed it on the bay today but had a look at the TPC after watching a YT vid, I can set it to 5000rpm but soon as I crank it over and check again its back to 10k, dies this tell us anything lads? P.S float bowls are full and I smell fuel at the pipe, plugs are wet just didnt look obviouse as they are still shiney. 👍


The thing about the TPS is that from experience they don't tend to just stop working, they break down over a period of time so that you don't even know it's happening until the bike starts running really roughly.
You said you cleaned your carbs, but only now have you found the TPS, but to set the carbs up properly you most certainly need the TPS to be functioning correctly as well.
The fact yours quickly goes to 10,000rpm means it's malfunctioning but not fully dead as it would otherwise go to 3000rpm, so i'm surprised you can't get it to at least start for a second or two, but either way it will certainly affect starting and will run rough at low revs or when ticking over, even more so if the carbs are not set up in any way.
Are the fuel mixture screws all turned out equally and correctly as well, as you've not really mentioned that?


Do not buy a used TPS

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-FZS-600-Fazer-Throttle-Position-Sensor/224167582622?hash=item34316ddb9e:g:jg8AAOSwVJ9fa1Hg
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Re: None starter
« Reply #19 on: 18 October 2020, 12:36:27 PM »
The bike will start without the TPS connected it will also run, just not as well further up the rev range.  If your bike isn't starting, is back to basics, spark, fuel or compression, even with low compression it will normally start just not run for long or under load, so it's fuel and spark in 90% of non starting cases.


It's likely, your pilot circuit that's blocked, ultrasonic cleaners aren't always successful, many of the small ebay type aren't up the the job beyond surface and simple stuff.  Check the pilot jets and the air bleeds in the carb bodies.   
Later

Dinger1962

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Re: None starter
« Reply #20 on: 18 October 2020, 06:43:19 PM »
imoh opinion i would check its not drawin air on the inlet rubbers o rings can dry out rubbers can crack even the balance port caps can leak through time also small inline filter situated at carb end of inlet hose can clog easy --
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cojonesdeloro

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Re: None starter
« Reply #21 on: 19 October 2020, 04:13:02 PM »
Thanks again for suggestions lads, I bought a 15ltr ultrasonic cleaner and the carbs got stripped then have been in for several cleanings (they are mint now) the main problem was the carb icing circuit, the water lines were solid with gunge, took hrs of fettling but they are now clean. I have some strange wiring from the battery that I think may have been an alarm or immobiliser in the past ( extra fuse holder) I'm wondering if this could be at fault also. still looking. have also ordered a compression testing kit, what sort of pressure should I be looking for? not beat yet  8) cheers. Daz.