Curiosity of national proportions

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 

Examples are:
 Border control is the obvious one - with different Governments it will become an issue. 
 Armed forces,
 air traffic control,
 utilities and infrastructure (national rail? The separation committee would draw lots to see who gets encumbered!),
 Sea boundaries,
 international territory boundaries,
 all the organisations across the world that will need to change their systems to recognise a new country.

 There's some detail to work out, but there's no real big issues there.  It's the same right across Europe.
 
 

Don't want to be inflammatory here but how many other countries do you think will want to trade with an independent Scotland that only has self interests at heart and won't help with international peace keeping?

 By International Peace Keeping, do you mean Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya?  Such opportunistic , unrealistic and immoral imperialist intervention projects are not things I could see Scotland being involved with in in the future.   Help with UN peace keeping duties, I'm sure we would.  And I'd imagine most of the world will be more than happy to to business with Scotland.  They might not be so keen to do business with us in the future if they see us hesitate and lack self confidence come autumn 2014.  Many countries round the globe are expecting Scottish Independence.  They won't understand if we don't grasp that opportunity.
 

[DryRob]

Fair do's. I honestly think it will take 15-20 years to become completely independent in which time concessions will likely be made to simplify the process. I've heard the reason the EU dictates so much in Britain is that ministers can't be bothered/have the time/money to legislate our own laws that the EU have similar laws for. Would be interesting to see if Scotland went down this route and just swapped UK for the EU.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Border control...we have a welcome to Scotland sign...our welfare state will put up another sign which says 'I wouldn't bother' in a number of non English languages.

 Scotland has a proud tradition of welcoming immigrants and treating them fairly.  I don't see that changing.   Westminster control of Scottish asylum issues was one of a number of issues that seriously damaged Jack McCronic and the last Labour administration in Scotland.

Scotland is already pretty much 'power independent' and grid useage tends to be propped up by France overnight...hey we can run an extension lead over to Norway

Scotland is energy rich, not just in minerals but has a massive and growing electrical over capacity.  England is short of generation, it's an export market for us. 

[DryRob]

Scotland is energy rich, not just in minerals but has a massive and growing electrical over capacity.  England is short of generation, it's an export market for us.

Would you take free BBC programming in exchange? 

[Sunny Intervals]

As an Englishman living in Scotland I really couldn't give a toss which way Scotland goes.

Overlords and vested interests are the same everywhere, and borders and proud claims of nationality are sooo 19th century.

Just wonder what would have happened if Scotland was independent when Alex was banging on a few years back, how England was holding Scotland back, and he wanted to follow the Celtic tiger economies of Ireland and Iceland.

If Scotland does split, I Definitely think they need to sort their own currency out.

Don't want Scotland becoming to the pound, what Greece is to the Euro.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Would you take free BBC programming in exchange? 

Umm let me think about that..................err...................No.

As an Englishman living in Scotland I really couldn't give a toss which way Scotland goes.

But you have a say.  You are part of 'the people of Scotland'.

If Scotland does split, I Definitely think they need to sort their own currency out.

I'm no expert on currency, but I can't help but think that using an established currency makes the transition to Independence easy.  And lets face it if we end of with some form of 'devo max' or fiscal autonomy within the UK then the pound it will be.  So does it really make that much difference if it's the pound for independence? 

Don't want Scotland becoming to the pound, what Greece is to the Euro.

I think it's more likely to be the opposite problem.  Nor does it look that we would have the issues that led Greece into a mess.   If we had our own currency it could easily become to strong.  Frankly - pound first choice - but Euro will do if England wants to be difficult.  And frankly I think it's probably desirable for England to have Scotland in the pound.

[Sunny Intervals]

But you have a say.  You are part of 'the people of Scotland'.

I haven't had a vote for about 8 years   

[pitternator]

the question should be....just what will the miltant scots moan aboot when they do get independance.?   
 
tbh to my mind your constant diatribe remind me of woolfy in citizen smith....make a life out of protesting ...what would yer life be like if ye had noothing ta moan aboot !     

[BIG MAC]

I should imagine we would moan about the speed of service from our truculent neighbours.
VNA has picked up on my point re immigration which while light hearted does make the point that I don't think a Scottish Welfare state would be as open for abuse as the current UK one (and that includes Scottish Nationals) There are many Eastern Europeans settled happily in Scotland and paying their way. I am not so sure we would be as supportive of policies which allow 4 unemployed generations of a family to exist on the back of the state, this as much as anything is to do with the latent Scottish work ethic I guess.
It occurs to me that a Scotland able to invest its own wealth in itself would almost inevitably start to invest in England and England in turn would be hungry for that investment...consequently this becomes an issue of balance of power and how ridiculously skewed it is at the moment.
There was mention of 'an English Parliament'...once the Scots leave you may find other parties follow suit leaving an English Parliament behind. Maybe then that English Parliament would concentrate on looking after the English....it's a crazy idea..but it may work

[DryRob]

There was mention of 'an English Parliament'...once the Scots leave you may find other parties follow suit leaving an English Parliament behind. Maybe then that English Parliament would concentrate on looking after the English....it's a crazy idea..but it may work

I think this is the main problem, British governance is seen as English oppression. Being as it is there's no way people who spend most of their time in London can understand the needs of people north of the Watford gap, let alone another country, and it's safe to say lots of people lose out under the current arrangements due. The current order of importance seems to be London>Europe>Everybody else in the UK.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

the question should be....just what will the miltant scots moan aboot when they do get independance.?   
 
tbh to my mind your constant diatribe remind me of woolfy in citizen smith....make a life out of protesting ...what would yer life be like if ye had noothing ta moan aboot !     

Miltant scots, diatribe, woolfy?

Nevermind.  But yes, isn't it about time that Scots grew up, stopped blaming the English for our woes and actually did something about it? 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Scottish Welfare state would be as open for abuse as the current UK one

I don't think welfare is an issue.  It's a side issue.

It's not welfare claimants that are crippling the UK, it's greedy bankers, the bonus culture, tax evasion etc.

Welfare always needs careful management, but you deal with the pennies once you have the pounds sorted out.  In the UK we have a government in power who don't want to tackle the big issues.

The Tories are prepared to put our economy on hold, stifle economic recovery, get us fighting amongst ourselves, so they can keep their hands, and their buddies hands on their big fat untaxed stacks of cash.

17 years of Tory rule led to devolution.  Scotland needs to wake up quick, lets not wait for another 10-15 years, or more, of Tory rule to realise finally that we have little politically in common with England and that once again we've been focced over by a government we never wanted..   We gotta get out now.

Oh, will Osborne cut the 50p rate?

[BIG MAC]

Lets see and rough figures as I don't know the current rates exactly. A £180 per week person now wont pay tax? 52 x £180 = £9360 less already tax free is it still 567? so - £5,670 leaving £3,690 taxable at 22%? That is a whole £811.80 the country loses.

A person on £300,000 and ignoring their numerous fiddles which there will likely be many same £5670 then up to £38k @ 22% £38k to £150k @ 40% then 150+ @ 50% That persons tax burden if the proposed 45% is correct would drop by £7,500 although a big sum...not enough to be leaving the country over when you are left with a pre-fiddle salary of £179,340
Many of us are in the 40% bracket for part of our salaries, a straight 40% of that £300,000 would reduce it to £180,000.00....smoke and mirrors ...the rich get richer, the country gets poorer....theres a sop to the very few people who are such low earners as a popularist move.
The Con Dems fooling no-one

[BIG MAC]

George Osborne "NORTH SEA OIL FIELD ALLOWANCE

"We are also introducing new allowances including a 3 billion pounds new field allowance for large and deep fields to open up West of Shetland, the last area of the basin left to be developed. A huge boost for investment in the North Sea"

You're all right George it's not yours to flog

[Phil TK]

You're all right George it's not yours to flog

Nor is the Argentin..er I mean Falklands oil.
 
But we're having it anyway

[BIG MAC]

I think you will find there are eager beavers currently writing very clever 'licences' for mineral extraction which would be 'tendered and sold' just before independence became reality.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Don't forget Mr Mac, as if you need me to tell you, that the 45% tax bracket is only a stepping stone to 40%.

Not sure what is happening with the 40% tax bracket, but it was lowered the other year catching more than ever.

The rise in personal allowance to 9205 is welcome, but realistically just means a drop in benefit payments for most.

The real issue at the lower end of the earnings scale is that too many big wealthy companies take the minimum wage as a standard or living wage.  It was never supposed to be that.  So that leaves those on better to mid earnings forking out benefits for those on minimum or near minimum wages.  So this means tax payer subsides the biggest richest companies in the land, and their rich shareholders.

But of course we are all in it together.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

But 300,000 more people will be drawn into the higher rate - 40% - tax band from 2013/14 as the threshold is reduced from £42,475 to £41,450.

[BIG MAC]

For those 'celebrating' paying £339 less income tax this year....using VNAs figs a difference of £1,025.00 which taxed at 40% = £410 ...welcome to the world of ConDem slipperiness

[VNA - BMW Wank]

And that's the second time they have lowered the 40% rate.

Of course those who got us into this mess get away Scot free. 

[JZS 600]

I loved Trainspotting, though,,,,,   

[VNA - BMW Wank]

So I make it that a bank boss, on say a million a year (not including bonuses) is now 42,500 quid a year better off.

And according to Osborne, if he didn't the big bosses their big tax cut they would up sticks and move abroad.  1.  Aye right and 2. Who cares.

[DryRob]

45% of something is better than 100% of nothing

[BIG MAC]

50% of something reduces the national debt and if they don't like it they can foc off because someone else will be happy of their stratospheric salary. All the spool about 'Attracting the talent' ...the senior managers often do SFA other than make sure middle managers keep them out of the sh1t. the middle managers put up with this hoping one day they will be senior managers....Banking made simple..

[VNA - BMW Wank]

All the spool about 'Attracting the talent' ...the senior managers often do SFA other than make sure middle managers keep them out of the sh1t.

And it was exactly the same shit we used to hear about the people - the talent - that bankrupted us.

Oh why oh why do people put up with this!