Author Topic: Rules of the road please help (Read 9441 times)

celticdog · « **on:** 12 December 2016, 04:58:20 pm »

Hello peeps can anyone help with this scenario?

The green car is going straight across a main road. the cyclist(pedal powered) is on the wrong side of the road overtaking stopped traffic.
The blue car flashes the green car to come out.

Is the green car or the red cyclist at fault if a collision occurs where the red cross is?

JoeRock · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 December 2016, 05:05:49 pm »

Split responsibility typically, the degree of blame for each party depends on the exact circumstance.

Car should ensure that the road is clear before pulling out, but the cyclist (or motorcyclist) should be riding in a fashion that would give him the ability to stop in time of such an eventuality - particularly given that there is a side road there.

Would greatly depend as to the manner of accident - I am assuming in this case the car has pulled out and cyclist has gone into the side?

Case law in point Leeson v Bevis Transport (1972)Worsford v Howe (1980)

robbo · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 December 2016, 07:26:40 pm »

It highlights the problem of "flashing other road users" which we all do to indicate we are giving way, but I would have thought the onus is with the green car pulling out.The blue car could be considered irresponsible if they hadn't checked their mirror for overtaking 2 wheeled traffic before flashing,which isn't an authorised procedure.

mickvp · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 December 2016, 07:31:16 pm »

I would have said it would be more the green cars fault than anything. Yes, the blue car flashed them out, but this means nothing as the onus is still on the green car to check its clear before actually going out. The red car is past the line on the wrong side, but is really just filtering and giving themselves a bit more room?

Worst case split fault between bike and car, but i personally see the green car is at fault. flashing people out is a problem in itself, but the highway code is pretty clear on what flashing lights means legally (although that is rarely what its used for).

fazersharp · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 December 2016, 07:52:55 pm »

100% the push bike but I feel law would have a different view.
The reason I say the bike is because when you are riding a bike in traffic like that you know that kind of thing happens all the time and you should be on the look out for it and expecting it, especially when you are doing a dangerous manover like filtering on the wrong side of the road - riding like that you are asking for trouble.
Thinking about it also 100% the green car as they should be expecting a kamakasi push bike.
Whether or not flashing was involved I dont think that comes in to it as it could just as easily been a wider gap in slow traffic in which the green can pulled out in too.

And does it matter if the green car was turning left right or going straight across. ?

tommyardin · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 December 2016, 08:09:09 pm »

I personally think it is the Green car at fault, the bike is already on the main/through road, the green car is pulling out of a side road right across the path of the bike.
The side road has a broken demarcation line telling the driver of the green car to slow down and only proceed when it is clear to do so, he proceeded when it wasn't clear, cut his balls off.

If it was a motorcyclist filtering we would have no trouble deciding who was at fault.

tommyardin · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 December 2016, 08:11:18 pm »

Anyway I hate green cars
LOL

Anyway Celtic wasn't that a coincidence all the cars on the main road are blue? what is the chance of that happening again?

fazersharp · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 December 2016, 08:15:24 pm »

Most people driving green cars a tossers - same as orange and gold ones. If I see one I am always expecting something just like I do when I cross paths with an Audi or BMW

darrsi · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 December 2016, 08:27:54 pm »

The cyclist should make themselves aware of side roads and possible exiting vehicles.
Vehicles exiting roads as pictured will always have blind spots and their vehicle will stick out before the driver has clear vision.
I blame the blue car for flashing the all clear without looking for danger first. A hand out the window could've alerted the cyclist then everyone would be happy.

Seriously though, the "biker" should've been more alert on approach to a side road. The position of the bike was totally legal, just rider not paying attention.

Frosties · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 December 2016, 08:29:12 pm »

Quote from: fazersharp on 12 December 2016, 08:15:24 pm

Most people driving green cars a tossers - same as orange and gold ones. If I see one I am always expecting something just like I do when I cross paths with an Audi or BMW

You forgot the superstars with their bonnets painted black......TW@'s

tommyardin · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 December 2016, 08:34:06 pm »

Quote from: fazersharp on 12 December 2016, 08:15:24 pm

Most people driving green cars a tossers - same as orange and gold ones. If I see one I am always expecting something just like I do when I cross paths with an Audi or BMW

I now have this picture in my mind of a Green BMW with no indicators and a wanker behind the wheel

Hang on that my Brother

YamFazFan · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 December 2016, 08:43:38 pm »

Quote from: fazersharp on 12 December 2016, 08:15:24 pm

Most people driving green cars a tossers - same as orange and gold ones. If I see one I am always expecting something just like I do when I cross paths with an Audi or BMW

The Dukes Of Hazzard drove an orange car and they were 'Just two good ole boys'

fazersharp · « **Reply #12 on:** 12 December 2016, 09:08:54 pm »

Quote from: YamFazFan on 12 December 2016, 08:43:38 pm

Quote from: fazersharp on 12 December 2016, 08:15:24 pm
Most people driving green cars a tossers - same as orange and gold ones. If I see one I am always expecting something just like I do when I cross paths with an Audi or BMW

The Dukes Of Hazzard drove an orange car and they were 'Just two good ole boys'

midden · « **Reply #13 on:** 12 December 2016, 09:45:54 pm »

Cyclist always wins anyway but this case I would say it's the green cars fault for pulling out; the offside of the blue car has effectively become the give way line..
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wasnt there a similar post with a fazer in place of bike and addition of zigzags. sometime last year

robbo · « **Reply #14 on:** 12 December 2016, 09:53:13 pm »

Quote from: fazersharp on 12 December 2016, 08:15:24 pm

Most people driving green cars a tossers - same as orange and gold ones. If I see one I am always expecting something just like I do when I cross paths with an Audi or BMW

In the early 80's I had an Opel Manta Berlinetta in metallic mid green.......really loved that car.

mtread · « **Reply #15 on:** 12 December 2016, 10:09:28 pm »

100% green car. Cyclist is perfectly legally overtaking stationary traffic, even if on the wrong side of the road (assuming nothing coming the other way). Green car should only pull out if it is safe to do so. Being flashed by another car means nothing. The green car needs to take account of the bike's stopping distance, not the other way round. Presumably the pushbike is not speeding !

darrsi · « **Reply #16 on:** 12 December 2016, 11:20:24 pm »

Quote from: mtread on 12 December 2016, 10:09:28 pm

100% green car. Cyclist is perfectly legally overtaking stationary traffic, even if on the wrong side of the road (assuming nothing coming the other way). Green car should only pull out if it is safe to do so. Being flashed by another car means nothing. The green car needs to take account of the bike's stopping distance, not the other way round. Presumably the pushbike is not speeding !

Cyclist should still be paying attention to side roads, and presume someone will pull out, as you should do on a motorbike.
If they don't pull out, that's a bonus.

mtread · « **Reply #17 on:** 12 December 2016, 11:34:31 pm »

Quote

Cyclist should still be paying attention to side roads, and presume someone will pull out, as you should do on a motorbike.If they don't pull out, that's a bonus.

True, but legally they are in the right and the car is at fault. If you are on a main road you have right of way over someone pulling out of a side road, whatever the circumstances.

Highway Code para 172 Road Traffic Act Regs 10(1), 16(1) & 25
http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/using-the-road---road-junctions-170-to-183.html

midden · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 December 2016, 11:56:31 pm »

Quote from: robbo on 12 December 2016, 09:53:13 pm

Quote from: fazersharp on 12 December 2016, 08:15:24 pm
Most people driving green cars a tossers - same as orange and gold ones. If I see one I am always expecting something just like I do when I cross paths with an Audi or BMW
In the early 80's I had an Opel Manta Berlinetta in metallic mid green.......really loved that car.

You old hasbeen you

Grahamm · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 December 2016, 12:23:56 am »

Highway Code Rule 172:The approach to a junction may have a ‘Give Way’ sign or a triangle marked on the road. You MUST give way to traffic on the main road when emerging from a junction with broken white lines across the road.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10(1),16(1) & 25

* * * * *

The driver exiting the junction is 100% at fault. It doesn't matter that the other car has stopped or flashed its lights or waved him out etc, the car pulling out is obliged by the above laws to make sure it is clear to pull out befor manoeuvring and give way to all other traffic.

Yes, it would be good for the the cyclist to ride defensively and notice that a) there's a junction, b) that there's a gap forming and c) that another vehicle could be pulling out, but these only mitigate against someone else doing something stupid and possibly protect themselves from harm, none of them are obligatory.

darrsi · « **Reply #20 on:** 13 December 2016, 12:43:25 am »

Quote from: mtread on 12 December 2016, 11:34:31 pm

Quote
Cyclist should still be paying attention to side roads, and presume someone will pull out, as you should do on a motorbike.If they don't pull out, that's a bonus.

True, but legally they are in the right and the car is at fault. If you are on a main road you have right of way over someone pulling out of a side road, whatever the circumstances.

Highway Code para 172 Road Traffic Act Regs 10(1), 16(1) & 25
http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/using-the-road---road-junctions-170-to-183.html

Who gives a shit about "legally"?
Legally won't matter when you're under a cars wheels!
Attention to detail is the way forward!

darrsi · « **Reply #21 on:** 13 December 2016, 12:47:24 am »

"Legally" i have the right of way as a pedestrian as soon as i put my foot on a highway, above vehicles, i have "right of way".
But, common sense says "Don't walk out in front of that 30mph bus, it'll probably hurt.....a lot."

tommyardin · « **Reply #22 on:** 13 December 2016, 01:55:36 am »

Quote from: robbo on 12 December 2016, 09:53:13 pm

Quote from: fazersharp on 12 December 2016, 08:15:24 pm
Most people driving green cars a tossers - same as orange and gold ones. If I see one I am always expecting something just like I do when I cross paths with an Audi or BMW
In the early 80's I had an Opel Manta Berlinetta in metallic mid green.......really loved that car.

I had a white Opal Kadet back in the 70's, loved that to, was so quick. think it was only a 1400

celticdog · « **Reply #23 on:** 13 December 2016, 06:57:49 am »

This actually almost happened yesterday morning. I work with both fellas, the green car driver and the cyclist. A bit of an atmosphere at work to say the least.

Imagine the drivers surprise when he nearly fubar'd a work colleague, he was none to happy, the cyclist was a bit sheepish so I guess he accepts that he wasn't totally in the right.
The drawing is the irate green car drivers handiwork- he does have a green car funnily enough, a mk3 1974 Cortina. buit he wasn't in that at the time. So the consensus is as far as the law goes the driver is at fault not the cyclist?

BBROWN1664 · « **Reply #24 on:** 13 December 2016, 08:39:34 am »

The green car is at fault.
The cyclist should have been paying more attention though.