DashCams / Helmet Cams - Good or Bad

[Streetbudgie]

This thread  is for those who want to discuss the good and bad points of personal cameras on the road and if they are a good, bad, necessary or irrelevant.

Personal cameras on the road seem to have a huge divide in how people perceive them, not many issues cause such a difference in opinion so a discussion should prove interesting.

Pretty much you should be able to say what you like on this thread, I’d like to keep the insults constructive where possible, but leave your ego and sensitivity at the door.

Some of the discussion points are below, I’m sure there are more and the discussion should evolve naturally unless it degrades into a slanging match!

So what do you think of personal cameras and those who choose to use them?

What do you think about posting recordings of other road users (for any reason) on social media for all to see?

What do you think about using the recordings to report other road users to the authorities?

What do you think about using the recordings to show fault in accidents?

One day all vehicles and possibly motorcycle helmets will come with personal cameras installed, there are some on the market now.

It may even be made law for you to wear a personal camera on the road, how about that?


OK that's just for starters, feel free to add more points or just discuss personal cameras but please keep it on topic as much as possible.

[Streetbudgie]

I decided to get a helmet cam after a friend was involved in an accident where he was wrongly deemed to be at fault and ended up losing his case just because the other car had multiple occupants who lied.

Since I got the camera I found a number of social media sites where you can upload dash cam recordings and they will be acted on by Plod and Local Authorities if the recoding shows something that those authorities deem serious enough.

So I made a decision to take an action and use my camera recordings if I feel the person was acting in a way that endangered the lives of other road users.

I think this is positive action and it makes me feel like I'm doing what I can to help prevent accidents on the roads.

I do not post recordings of mistakes or driving errors, we all make those and no-one is perfect.

I only post recordings of those flouting the law that is put there to keep us all safe and those who put other road users in danger

I don't feel 'like a grass' or like I'm telling tales as the recordings are of those drivers who do these acts deliberately and with no regard for others.

So that's why I got a personal camera and why I post recordings on my Youtube account (you have to host it somewhere) and share it to other social media so it can be acted on by those who have the authority.

[NorthWestern]

Very interesting topic really.


I do have one but don't use it often.  I don't think there is anything wrong with those that do - I see lots of riders with them fitted on my commute.  They can make interesting videos and if the unfortunate happens, potentially strengthen your case.


The problem I see with posting (or submitting to authorities) evidence videos is that  the people taking the vid often cause issues in their attempts to take the video of the other driver/rider.  A case in point - only a few days ago I was filtering between lanes 2 and 3 on the M6, I come across a guy also filtering.  A car ahead of us was clearly distracted, drifting to the white line etc (traffic was doing maybe 10-20 mph).  The rider in front (with a GoPro on his helmet) had clearly decided to get it on camera, slowed and looked at the licence plate first, then accelerated along side to get a look in at the driver.  He actually clipped the wing mirror of a car in lane 2 as he was concentrating on looking to his right at the driver.  He got away with it (although I doubt the car owner was pleased - the rider just carried on) but could have been much worse.


It is annoying that people do things while driving, mobile phones does seem to be the biggest thing though, certainly from what I see every day.  Not so much talking but when they are texting/facebooking etc they drift all over the lane, have to slam on because they were looking at the phone when traffic in front had come to a stop or whatever.  I am sure opinions change somewhat if one of these drivers has caused an accident involving you or people you know.


Where do you stop though?  I am sure everybody here does things they shouldn't, looking at something else, opening some food packet, changing radio station, getting their lipstick from the glovebox etc  One min you could be opening a Turkish Delight in the car, the next your opening a £1000 fine letter because someone caught you on camera.  Let people get on with it?

[Streetbudgie]

So in answer to Midden on the thread about the driver eating breakfast at the wheel:


Midden wrote:

Looked more like salad to me.  Are you related to cycle Gaz?

Just a couple of thoughts just for fun

1. How do you know he has to take his eyes off the road each time he puts spoon in the bowl looked to me as though his head was up and facing forward.  I don't find a need to look down at the bowl when I eat

2. How many seconds where your eyes off the road to try and get this man sacked.  Perhaps your numberplate should be splattered on facebook



My response:

No I'm not related to Cycle Gaz, although I have seen his Youtube channel and he seems to be a particularly sensitive cyclist who posts video of drivers he thinks are doing something wrong, when on the whole they just seem to be on the road the same time as him. IMO he is a twat.

Whether you think the Kelly Comms driver can eat from a bowl with a spoon whilst driving and keep his eyes on the road or not, it is illegal and dangerous.

Had he been seen by Police he would without a doubt have been nicked.

Who said I'm trying to get this man sacked? I'm not saying his work is at question, just his driving. I don't want him sacked, I want him to drive with care and consideration for others.

However if he did get sacked would I feel bad? I'm not sure, but I do know this:

I'd feel bad if he plowed into my partner on her scooter and killed her because he was eating and distracted

I'd feel bad if he plowed into my step daughter's car and killed my grandchild who at a few weeks old would be easily hurt even in her safety seat because he was eating and distracted.

I'd feel bad if smashed into my stepson as he crossed the road at a crossing and crippled him so he couldn't finish his Uni degree and spent the rest of his life in a wheelchair because he was eating and distracted.

Ask yourself if the driver felt bad for eating at the wheel and putting all the road users around him at risk, no he didn't, he felt hungry and couldn't give a toss about anyone else.

If he does get sacked because of this then it is his own fault, not mine.

[Streetbudgie]

One other point I'd like to make for discussion is that if there were more Police on the roads we wouldn't need personal cameras.

However all the Police have been replaced with Gatso cameras to save salary and pension costs.

It is atrocious how few mobile and foot patrol Police we have nowadays and the only people to blame for that sit in the big house at Westminster.

[Streetbudgie]

Where do you stop though?  I am sure everybody here does things they shouldn't, looking at something else, opening some food packet, changing radio station, getting their lipstick from the glovebox etc  One min you could be opening a Turkish Delight in the car, the next your opening a £1000 fine letter because someone caught you on camera.  Let people get on with it?

I think the lines are clear, you report the actions that are dangerous and ignore those that are not unless they break the traffic laws.

Is putting on lipstick when driving dangerous? Hell yeah! You have to look in the mirror to do that.

Is putting on lipstick dangerous while sitting in a traffic queue and not moving? No and I wouldn't report it.

The difference between putting on lipstick and a mobile phone user is that the law is clear: you must not use a mobile hand held device whilst you are in charge of a vehicle on the road.

[NorthWestern]

You can't really say that there are clear lines and then use personal interpretation to say what is and isn't cause for driving dangerous however obvious it may be.  Can people look at their sat nav while driving?  Isn't it the same as looking in the mirror?  You are looking at something other than the road and concentrating on it for a period of time.  Not illegal but potentially the same as reading a text etc


People are always going to ask who are you to be recording this.  Are you really spick and span? Never speed - ever?  Ever done one of the huge array of things that you could be pulled for?  You say its only dangerous driving, but why stop there?  What would you say to someone, if you came out of ASDA and a guy was measuring your tread depth and said "you're under, I am reporting you" (by way of example, don't take this literally).


When people post these videos on social media, do they include their own journey or just the bit where they caught someone out?  The guy I mentioned before, when traffic cleared proceeded to accelerate up to over 100mph.  I bet he wouldn't have included that in his post (if he did - I have no way of knowing).


I am not having a go at you personally mate, just mentioning some things I see.  You have made you own mind up about it - fair play - but as will all things not everyone see it the same.

[fazersharp]

 A case in point - only a few days ago I was filtering between lanes 2 and 3 on the M6, I come across a guy also filtering.  A car ahead of us was clearly distracted, drifting to the white line etc (traffic was doing maybe 10-20 mph).  The rider in front (with a GoPro on his helmet) had clearly decided to get it on camera, slowed and looked at the licence plate first, then accelerated along side to get a look in at the driver.  He actually clipped the wing mirror of a car in lane 2 as he was concentrating on looking to his right at the driver.

This is it for me that gets my goat where its the rider with the cam that becomes the problem.
I am thinking of getting one for insurance proof use, I have no intention of uploading crap to utube or filming my own riding.

 

[Fazer99]

I'm all for Camera's as even if you don't record it works really well as a deterent, an example of this is I used to get a lot of tailgaters that were that close I could have them done for rape, I fited my old broken camera to the back of the bike in clear view and the differance it made was amazing (apart from the jumped up little twats with their baseball caps in their kitted out 1 litre go-karts thinking that it's a formula 1 racing car)

I have no issue with uploading videos either as long as no "risk" however small has been made to get the footage.
I don't want to perceive myself as an Angel on the road as I'm not. However, no matter how much I might do twattish thing's on the road I alway's strive to be safe and if I see something that is dangerous and I manage to catch it on camera it will be used, this goes for if I'm seen to do something dangerous then use the footage as I would deserve a spanking and not the good kind of spanking 

[midden]

So in answer to Midden on the thread about the driver eating breakfast at the wheel:

Kind of ironic you started this post to stop another post being destroyed by the wrong comments and immediately you aim to destroy what is in fact a good thread topic by bringing the other thread over

Northwestern posted all my thoughts perfectly and no I don't think it acceptable behaviour by the driver but the first few seconds of your video and a capture of his reg should be enough for the police or his company if that's the route you want to take. Your extended footage gave little if any extra detail and placed you as the danger to other road users imo 
Midden wrote:

Looked more like salad to me.  Are you related to cycle Gaz?

Just a couple of thoughts just for fun

1. How do you know he has to take his eyes off the road each time he puts spoon in the bowl looked to me as though his head was up and facing forward.  I don't find a need to look down at the bowl when I eat

2. How many seconds where your eyes off the road to try and get this man sacked.  Perhaps your numberplate should be splattered on facebook



My response:

No I'm not related to Cycle Gaz, although I have seen his Youtube channel and he seems to be a particularly sensitive cyclist who posts video of drivers he thinks are doing something wrong, when on the whole they just seem to be on the road the same time as him. IMO he is a twat.

Whether you think the Kelly Comms driver can eat from a bowl with a spoon whilst driving and keep his eyes on the road or not, it is illegal and dangerous.

Had he been seen by Police he would without a doubt have been nicked.

Who said I'm trying to get this man sacked? I'm not saying his work is at question, just his driving. I don't want him sacked, I want him to drive with care and consideration for others.
posting on YouTube is a good way of getting good him sacked
However if he did get sacked would I feel bad? I'm not sure, but I do know this:


I'd feel bad if he plowed into my partner on her scooter and killed her because he was eating and distracted

He was quite possibly more distracted by a motorcyclist hanging on his nearside looking to steal his food

I'd feel bad if he plowed into my step daughter's car and killed my grandchild who at a few weeks old would be easily hurt even in her safety seat because he was eating and distracted.

did he take his eyes off the road ahead like you did?

I'd feel bad if smashed into my stepson as he crossed the road at a crossing and crippled him so he couldn't finish his Uni degree and spent the rest of his life in a wheelchair because he was eating and distracted.

In this instance there was more chance of you doing that as you were inside lane facing away from the curb

Ask yourself if the driver felt bad for eating at the wheel and putting all the road users around him at risk, no he didn't, he felt hungry and couldn't give a toss about anyone else.

Possibly he did which could be why he kept his distance from the traffic ahead

If he does get sacked because of this then it is his own fault, not mine.

[Streetbudgie]

I'm not going to keep defending my riding during the clip I posted so this is the last on it:

There was no risk to anyone while I was facing the van driver, I left plenty of space between me and traffic ahead and I didn't delay anyone behind me either, at all times I was well within my lane and was not riding on the van's door or anywhere near it.
The bloke was eating a bowl of food with spoon while driving over 30 mph and I'm in the wrong 

I'm done justifying posting that video.

In answer to other points - No my riding and driving is not fault free but there's a difference.

I'm not posting errors, I'm posting absolute disregard for other road users safety and endangerment to life because of someone's selfishness that their mobile phone call or text message or stomach is more important than the lives around them.


 

[NorthWestern]

Isn't that point of the discussion though that you had one person driving irresponsibly (I doubt anyone would argue that the van driver is not in the wrong here - even if they do it themselves) but that you now have two people distracting themselves.  I am sure that, if asked, the van driver would defend himself like you are doing, saying he was only recharging his spoon when he knew there was nothing close to him or whatever.  People are never personally in the wrong, ever, fact


What would you say, for example, if I posted a video on here where I am riding along in traffic ogling women at bus stops as I pass, taking time to point the camera at various endowments as I do so?  Silly thing to do really, distracting myself, not concentrating on riding, not fully focused on traffic etc.  Just because people are videoing others who are in the wrong doesn't give them carte blanche in order to do so.  That is my main issue with it really... 

[crickleymal]

One other point I'd like to make for discussion is that if there were more Police on the roads we wouldn't need personal cameras.

However all the Police have been replaced with Gatso cameras to save salary and pension costs.

It is atrocious how few mobile and foot patrol Police we have nowadays and the only people to blame for that sit in the big house at Westminster.

Actually I don't think that's true. To have any effect on the roads you'd have to have a copper every half mile or so. Ditto with foot patrols, once the perps know the routine they're safe. Sure people feel safer knowing the police are patrolling but I'm not sure the statistics confirm the feeling. You'd be much better off having a battery of cctv cameras and employing a few people to watch them. But that would open up another kettle of fish.

This is interesting and doesn't entirely support my viewpoint.

[darrsi]

You could throw into the equation bikers that use earphones with music playing.
I know some people on here use them, but for me personally they would be a complete distraction and I would never even contemplate it whatsoever.
Same as cars with booming music, I just don't see how you can be fully aware of what's around you, not that they normally give a shit anyway!

[Streetbudgie]

The camera angle is not the angle that my eyes are at, it's called moving your eyeballs, I turned my head so the camera is pointing at the van but I can still see straight ahead.

Disagree on the lack of coppers Crickleymal but your point seems to be that more cctv is a good thing?

Personally I'd rather see Plod out and about more and in unmarked cars.

[Streetbudgie]

Isn't that point of the discussion though that you had one person driving irresponsibly (I doubt anyone would argue that the van driver is not in the wrong here - even if they do it themselves) but that you now have two people distracting themselves.  I am sure that, if asked, the van driver would defend himself like you are doing, saying he was only recharging his spoon when he knew there was nothing close to him or whatever.  People are never personally in the wrong, ever, fact


What would you say, for example, if I posted a video on here where I am riding along in traffic ogling women at bus stops as I pass, taking time to point the camera at various endowments as I do so?  Silly thing to do really, distracting myself, not concentrating on riding, not fully focused on traffic etc.  Just because people are videoing others who are in the wrong doesn't give them carte blanche in order to do so.  That is my main issue with it really...

If you posted videos of totty then I'd be happy and sad. Happy because its totty but sad because you are distracting yourself from the road.

I wasn't distracted, my eyes were looking forward, the camera is not pointing in the same direction that I'm looking, my eyes can turn to the side!

[NorthWestern]

So my eyes don't turn, just yours?

Intentionally left blank

[Val]

So in answer to Midden on the thread about the driver eating breakfast at the wheel:


Just a couple of thoughts just for fun

1. How do you know he has to take his eyes off the road each time he puts spoon in the bowl looked to me as though his head was up and facing forward.  I don't find a need to look down at the bowl when I eat

2. How many seconds where your eyes off the road to try and get this man sacked.  Perhaps your numberplate should be splattered on facebook



My response:

Whether you think the Kelly Comms driver can eat from a bowl with a spoon whilst driving and keep his eyes on the road or not, it is illegal and dangerous.

Had he been seen by Police he would without a doubt have been nicked.

Who said I'm trying to get this man sacked? I'm not saying his work is at question, just his driving. I don't want him sacked, I want him to drive with care and consideration for others.

However if he did get sacked would I feel bad? I'm not sure, but I do know this:

I'd feel bad if he plowed into my partner on her scooter and killed her because he was eating and distracted

I'd feel bad if he plowed into my step daughter's car and killed my grandchild who at a few weeks old would be easily hurt even in her safety seat because he was eating and distracted.

I'd feel bad if smashed into my stepson as he crossed the road at a crossing and crippled him so he couldn't finish his Uni degree and spent the rest of his life in a wheelchair because he was eating and distracted.

Ask yourself if the driver felt bad for eating at the wheel and putting all the road users around him at risk, no he didn't, he felt hungry and couldn't give a toss about anyone else.

If he does get sacked because of this then it is his own fault, not mine.

Just for the record there is no answer here how many seconds you were distracted by chasing the van instead of riding normally?

Also I am not convinced that everybody should start wearing cameras and chasing bad drivers, because doing so will create dangerous conditions on the road itself.

Not to mention that everybody at some point by mistake or deliberately is braking some rules. I cannot stress enough EVERYBODY. Pretty sure if I follow you with a camera for a day or two and post that you will be surprised.

If somebody looks at the van driver video you have posted we may find that your riding is not very safe either.

why worry about a speck in your friend's eye when you have a log in your own?

To answer your question about cameras - I have 2 mounted on the bike as in black box configuration. Never post on youtube.

IMO all these cyclists and bikers wearing cameras and posting on youtube are a menace. Sorry if you feel offended, but you have asked for opinion - this is mine.

Good luck and safe riding 

[Streetbudgie]

Nope, I waved that cager through with my right hand and I was aware of what was going on around me at all times.

I really don't understand the need to try and pick holes in my riding or prove, when you can't possibly, that my riding was dangerous.

No wonder no-one wants to stand up and speak out.

[midden]

The camera angle is not the angle that my eyes are at, it's called moving your eyeballs, I turned my head so the camera is pointing at the van but I can still see straight ahead.

excuse me while I scratch my chin and make a silly  mwhaw sound (so much nicer than *cough cough bullshit*  don'tcha think)

 you could still see straight ahead, you claim, I presume straight ahead would be the cars in front and not the most  vulnerable curb.

Anyway  Mr Van Man has bogeyes as well and one is higher than the other so like yourself he can keep one eye on the road and the other on the food.  His food not yours :/

[Val]

Nope, I waved that cager through with my right hand and I was aware of what was going on around me at all times.

I really don't understand the need to try and pick holes in my riding or prove, when you can't possibly, that my riding was dangerous.

No wonder no-one wants to stand up and speak out.

I would have been really surprised if you have replied:

Sorry it was entirely my fault, I was riding erratically and has changed my normal riding line in order to catch the van driver and almost got run over by a car.

My educated guess is never gonna happen 

Why you can't go on and leave the other people do the same?

BTW road safety cannot be achieved by forcing people, the only way to go is have more pollite and non-confrontational environment on the roads.

And your cameras are making the bad situation worst. What would have happened if the van driver gets agitated? One potentialy bad road situation made worst by your vigilante camera appproach.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/08/29/cyclists-with-helmet-cams-blamed-for-inflaming-road-rage-incidents_n_8042730.html

Helmet Cams Are Inflaming Road Rage Incidents, Motoring Body Claims As It Brands Cyclists ‘Self-Righteous’
 

[midden]

Nope, I waved that cager through with my right hand and I was aware of what was going on around me at all times.

I really don't understand the need to try and pick holes in my riding or prove, when you can't possibly, that my riding was dangerous.

No wonder no-one wants to stand up and speak out.

hold on I feel a cough coming.....

13 seconds in the car is passing your front wheel and your mirror shows you swinging your arm almost aggressively to tell the car to get a spurt on.  I would suggest until that point you was unaware of that car

[Exupnut]

I've decided I'm gonna get a camera....if I see a biker encouraging other traffic to undertake I'm gonna send it to the Feds. Another brilliantly informative thread ....cheers Foccers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[seangee]

I started using one regularly 3 years ago. I got SMIDSYd on my 3 week old bike. The drivers immediate response was "you must have been going very fast because when I looked in my mirror there was nothing". Fortunately the biker behind me pointed out that I was stationary with both feet on the road when she chose to exceute her U-Turn. He then made a point of giving me his card in case I needed a witness and said if I emailed him he would send me the video. All of this was done in front of her.


All turned out well and the next day I got a call from her insurance who told me she had admitted liability and to go and get my bike fixed. But without the witness it would have been my word against hers and probably a 50/50 decision which would have left me with an excess, and not to mention massive insurance premiums for the next 5 years. So now the GoPro lives attached to the front of my screen. Hardly ever even look at the pics and never post them (unless its someone almost hitting a bike because they were texting on the road - and then I have no problem including the number plate).

[darrsi]

No point in crying over spilt milk........said the van driver.