Date: 06-12-20  Time: 01:18 AM

Author Topic: Random starting problem  (Read 3847 times)

darrsi

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Random starting problem
« on: 04 July 2016, 12:11:01 PM »
As above, this has being going on for a while now and it's becoming irritating.

At completely random intervals the bike will appear to have a flat battery when I go to start it, and I just get a buzzing sound.

Thing is, once I get it started via jump leads it won't do it again for ages.

I did have an issue with my side stand switch but I've bypassed that now by connecting the wires, not ideal I know but the switch is in a terrible place to get to so it'll do for now.

When this has happened before I've ridden the bike to work and put the battery on charge and it shows as full in less than half hour so I don't believe it is a dud battery problem. Also once I do get it started it will start absolutely fine on the button for weeks or even months before it does it again.

I last used the bike on Friday, and it wasn't raining so I don't think it's a water issue either.
All battery connections are good and tight, and the battery is maybe 3 years old, but as I've said I don't think it's that otherwise it would be happening much more frequently.
Other than this, everything else is working fine.

Any ideas welcomed, I'm a bit stumped at the moment?  :look
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Bretty

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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #1 on: 04 July 2016, 12:24:09 PM »
No idea?!

Are you doing that thing where, if you turn the ignition key too far 'off' it puts on your parking light and drains the battery? Just me then?
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Jamieg285

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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #2 on: 04 July 2016, 12:35:50 PM »
No experience of this problem on a bike, but on a car I used to have I got those symptoms from a sticky starter solenoid. 

A common fix was to whack it with a hammer to free it off, but the best solution was to get a new one.
« Last Edit: 04 July 2016, 12:36:50 PM by Jamieg285 »

slappy

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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #3 on: 04 July 2016, 12:37:25 PM »
Sounds similar to a problem I had with my old gen1 1000, after messing about for ages found it to be a worn ignition switch.

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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #4 on: 04 July 2016, 12:52:16 PM »
Dodgy starter solenoid
my momma always says, stupid is as stupid does.
that's all i gotta say about that

darrsi

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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #5 on: 04 July 2016, 01:13:29 PM »
No idea?!

Are you doing that thing where, if you turn the ignition key too far 'off' it puts on your parking light and drains the battery? Just me then?


No, and i don't use an alarm either so that can be ruled out.
Any extras on the bike, like heated grips, air horn, etc, are wired into the ignition, so no draining of battery overnight, everything gets switched off properly.
It's the randomness that is the most annoying thing, as it'll work just fine for ages until it does it again.
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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #6 on: 04 July 2016, 04:22:28 PM »
Its either the starter solenoid or the starter motor. Without me listening to where the noise is coming from it is difficult to say for certain.
Connecting jump leads gives it enough power to overcome the issue.

Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again

darrsi

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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #7 on: 04 July 2016, 05:09:00 PM »
Its either the starter solenoid or the starter motor. Without me listening to where the noise is coming from it is difficult to say for certain.
Connecting jump leads gives it enough power to overcome the issue.

Okay, I'm getting the hint.
I'll charge the battery again when I get home anyway, then look at ordering another solenoid.
I only want to do things one at a time so I can properly figure out the cause for future reference.

Out of interest, are they a repairable part, or do they just wear out or break down and need replacing?
Can't say I've ever had reason to deal with them before.
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darrsi

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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #8 on: 04 July 2016, 05:14:55 PM »
£14.75 for a used solenoid on Fazerspares, or £12.75 for a brand new one on Ebay?  :look
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clayt74

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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #9 on: 04 July 2016, 05:41:10 PM »
It's unlikely to be the solenoid, if it was stuck there would be no noise and jump leads wouldn't make a difference. The solenoid needs very little current to operate. More likely to be the starter motor stalling when in certain positions.

unfazed

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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #10 on: 04 July 2016, 06:47:27 PM »
Most likely the solonoid acting up due to corrosion on the big contacts I had to change a few of them over the years and any I dismantled were all the same, corrosion on the big copper contacts.

The corrosion reduce the current flow to the starter making it sound like the battery is low.
The only other issues could be worn brushes on the starter motor, but I would change the solonoid first

darrsi

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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #11 on: 04 July 2016, 07:24:55 PM »
Most likely the solonoid acting up due to corrosion on the big contacts I had to change a few of them over the years and any I dismantled were all the same, corrosion on the big copper contacts.

The corrosion reduce the current flow to the starter making it sound like the battery is low.
The only other issues could be worn brushes on the starter motor, but I would change the solonoid first


Got a solenoid on order, as i said earlier i'll do one thing at a time until i, or you lot, officially nail it.


Belated Happy Birthday by the way Unfazed.  :thumbup
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Skippernick

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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #12 on: 04 July 2016, 08:28:49 PM »
Dont discount a dud battery though.
My car had a 2 year old Yusa battery, car failed to start the AA man tested it on his special machine and said the battery is fine, usually this machine fails batteries even good ones. He said the problem was an intermittent electrical drain!!!
I charged the battery and then disconnected it over night and low and behold it discharged. Computers what do they know.
Went through 3 days of testing at my local autospares and they confirmed a dud cell.
What i am saying is even if the battery appears to be behaving charge wise it may still be dud.
But i also reckon its the starter. :D
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darrsi

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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #13 on: 04 July 2016, 09:33:03 PM »
Dont discount a dud battery though.
My car had a 2 year old Yusa battery, car failed to start the AA man tested it on his special machine and said the battery is fine, usually this machine fails batteries even good ones. He said the problem was an intermittent electrical drain!!!
I charged the battery and then disconnected it over night and low and behold it discharged. Computers what do they know.
Went through 3 days of testing at my local autospares and they confirmed a dud cell.
What i am saying is even if the battery appears to be behaving charge wise it may still be dud.
But i also reckon its the starter. :D

When i left work to go home this evening it started on the button, no problem whatsoever.
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darrsi

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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #14 on: 11 July 2016, 09:52:33 PM »
Bike never started AGAIN this morning.
Changed the starter relay for a brand new one and gave the battery a couple of hours boost, so i'll see if that sorts things out.
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lincs1963

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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #15 on: 14 July 2016, 10:12:46 PM »
My thoughts does this on occasion,  if I wiggle the key about it starts, so I'm going with worn ignition.

darrsi

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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #16 on: 15 July 2016, 10:53:07 AM »
My thoughts does this on occasion,  if I wiggle the key about it starts, so I'm going with worn ignition.

I will promise to wiggle my key if it happens again, just for fun value, but I'm fairly sure that's not the problem. 
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darrsi

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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #17 on: 20 July 2016, 06:37:33 AM »
Came out of work last night in the stupidly warm weather, bike gear on, sweating buckets already........bike doesn't start.  :'(


Made a quick call at reception to my electronics technician who said he had some jump leads and also leaves at the same time as me so he would be out in a minute, but then i noticed the 20 foot mild slope in the car park so tried my luck, bumped it and it pinged to life.  :woot


Battery has been on charge all night, but i've got a brand new one on order now, as i think mine must have a dud cell.


I've gone for the one below as it is a 12ah rather than most which were mainly 10ah.
And hopefully this will be the end of the problem.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311057282347?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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Robgosty

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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #18 on: 20 July 2016, 09:34:12 AM »
Had the exact same problem Sun, had started bike Sat night as going out Sunday and all was well, pal arrived Sun, pushed bike out of garage and no start, no ignition lights, put jump box on, no joy, everything dead  :(  however hazards were working o/k, turned out to be bad connection on white plug and socket under left hand side cover (when sat on bike) dose of switch cleaner and all well again, did 240 miles + on Sun, no problems, have now pulled every connector on bike and applied switch cleaner so hopefully no more problems  8)

clayt74

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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #19 on: 20 July 2016, 05:35:45 PM »
Quote from: clayt74 link=topic=20471.msg236101#msg23610mickvp1 date=1467650470
It's unlikely to be the solenoid, if it was stuck there would be no noise and jump leads wouldn't make a difference. The solenoid needs very little current to operate. More likely to be the starter motor stalling when in certain positions.

I really hope the battery does sort it for you!
But I would have thought a battery issue would be a more  regular fault rather than an intermittent one?
If it doesn't sort it, I still think starter motor. Good luck

darrsi

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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #20 on: 20 July 2016, 06:27:04 PM »
Quote from: clayt74 link=topic=20471.msg236101#msg23610mickvp1 date=1467650470
It's unlikely to be the solenoid, if it was stuck there would be no noise and jump leads wouldn't make a difference. The solenoid needs very little current to operate. More likely to be the starter motor stalling when in certain positions.

I really hope the battery does sort it for you!
But I would have thought a battery issue would be a more  regular fault rather than an intermittent one?
If it doesn't sort it, I still think starter motor. Good luck


I think yesterday the heat just killed it.
We deal with lots of batteries at work so the engineers have a good knowledge of their behaviour, and one of them is totally convinced i have a dud cell.
I have no reason to not believe him.
Should be delivered tomorrow and hopefully he'll be proven right.
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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #21 on: 20 July 2016, 08:42:38 PM »
Probably a long shot but a mate of mine had trouble starting his car, bought a new battery but it cured nothing, turned out it was a bad earth, might worth checking.

darrsi

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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #22 on: 20 July 2016, 09:48:05 PM »
Probably a long shot but a mate of mine had trouble starting his car, bought a new battery but it cured nothing, turned out it was a bad earth, might worth checking.

Cheers, i will bear that in mind if this doesn't work out.  :thumbup
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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #23 on: 20 July 2016, 11:11:14 PM »
We deal with lots of batteries at work so the engineers have a good knowledge of their behaviour, and one of them is totally convinced i have a dud cell.
I have no reason to not believe him.
Should be delivered tomorrow and hopefully he'll be proven right.
A bit late now since you've spent yer money, but a few seconds work with a voltmeter might have been informative.

darrsi

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Re: Random starting problem
« Reply #24 on: 21 July 2016, 06:26:56 AM »
We deal with lots of batteries at work so the engineers have a good knowledge of their behaviour, and one of them is totally convinced i have a dud cell.
I have no reason to not believe him.
Should be delivered tomorrow and hopefully he'll be proven right.
A bit late now since you've spent yer money, but a few seconds work with a voltmeter might have been informative.


Did that yesterday.
Battery was on charge all night beforehand.
Went out to check at lunch time, off was 12.4v, engine on bounced around 12.58v, then after about 3mins of engine running i switched it off and it was then 12.6+ volts.
So it is getting a charge to it because it was higher volts at the end of the 3mins, but obviously not holding it too well, or as suggested i've got a dud cell and it's just not behaving normally.
I ride with both headlights on so they will be pulling down a bit of power as well.
If the battery gets there before lunch i'll fit it and test again, apparently new batteries come 75% dry charged and are basically ready to go from new once assembled, although i have access to untold chargers at work so may put it on a very low amp booster charge if it arrives early enough.
« Last Edit: 21 July 2016, 06:55:29 AM by darrsi »
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