Moto laid on the floor - Starting issues

[xthib1]

Hi there, a few days ago, as I had just finished a U-turn I put both my feet on the floor and for some reason (that I can still not explain) I lost my balance and had to lay my bike on the right side.
I didn't drop it, and even managed to kill the engine with the red switch. I was lucky enough to be helped straight away by someone who saw the scene and the bike didn't stay more than 2 minutes on the floor.

However, when we put it back on its wheels, I noticed some petrol leaking from the 2 tubes seen on the photo (please don't pay attention to the down-pipes:  YES I will paint them back to black ^^ ).
It then took me a few minutes before I was able to start it again (had to realize that 1) the kill switch was on 2) the 1st gear was engaged ....).


Now, since then I've noticed that when I try to start my bike when the engine is cold, it takes 2 or 3 attempts before it actually ignites (with the choke ON).
I might imagine something but I'm pretty sure it would start on the button before, whether the engine was cold or not.




I would like to know if it seems normal for you or not?

[darrsi]

Not sure of the issue but you maybe wanna think of repositioning those pipes, i don't think petrol and hot exhausts are a very good mix.

[crickleymal]

Could it be that the battery has lost some acid and therefore is a little weak? Or possibly you've stirred up some sediment in the tank or carb bowls?

[Fazerider]

It's normal for a small amount of fuel to escape via the breather when the bike's laid on its side with a reasonably full tank.
As for the starting difficulties, have you tried starting without choke? The carbs on the Fazer are set to run a little rich by default, most people find they don't need choke unless the weather is pretty chilly. If its behaviour has changed then it may be that some disturbed debris at the bottom of the float bowls has blocked a jet.

[unfazed]

Try draining the float bowls, could be dislodged sediment as crickleymal said.

Loosen the screws a few turns to let all the fuel drain out, then screw them back in. Switch on the ignition (make sure the kill switch is on) and leave the ignition on until the pump stops ticking, switch off the ignition, switch it on again, leave it on until the pump stops ticking again. Keep doing this until the pump does not tick when you switch on the ignition. That is when the float bowls are full. Now you can start the bike

[xthib1]

So, I should:


- Check the battery
- Try to drain the float bowls


Darsi: how would you reposition the pipes and where?


Fazerider: I haven't tried as it always seems to need the choke, unless the engine is already warm, in which case the bike start on the button.

Unfazed: what screw are you talking about?


What is weird is that, as I said, when the engine is warm, it starts straight away, no need of choke....


I will try what you advised and let you know.


Thanks!!!

[unfazed]

The 2 pipes should be the coolant reservoir overflow and the fuel tank breather/drain hose, if so they are in the correct location, just ensure they are inside in the hose holder.

The battery is unlikely to be an issue as they are a sealed unit and does not have an over flow pipe.

[xthib1]

Thank you Unfazed 
 
Can you tell me more about that screws ??

[darrsi]

The 2 pipes should be the coolant reservoir overflow and the fuel tank breather/drain hose, if so they are in the correct location, just ensure they are inside in the hose holder.

The battery is unlikely to be an issue as they are a sealed unit and does not have an over flow pipe.

I would've thought those pipes should go down more central to the bike rather than sitting on the exhaust?

[unfazed]

Thank you Unfazed 
 
Can you tell me more about that screws ??

A good fitting flat screwdriver should do the trick has a bit more bite. They will loosen with a crack and frighten the crap out of you

Anti clockwise of course Put a piece of kitchen toweling under the carbs to see if any sediment comes out.

The problem starting from cold could also be water in the petrol which may have been unsettled from the bottom of the tank when it fell over and it settles in the bottom of the float bowls over night and it is picked up before the fuel by the pilot jets when first starting . As we all know water does not ignite, hence the extra time taken to start

[unfazed]

The 2 pipes should be the coolant reservoir overflow and the fuel tank breather/drain hose, if so they are in the correct location, just ensure they are inside in the hose holder.

The battery is unlikely to be an issue as they are a sealed unit and does not have an over flow pipe.

I would've thought those pipes should go down more central to the bike rather than sitting on the exhaust?

Would not fancy Coolant of or fuel on the back tyre 

[darrsi]

The 2 pipes should be the coolant reservoir overflow and the fuel tank breather/drain hose, if so they are in the correct location, just ensure they are inside in the hose holder.

The battery is unlikely to be an issue as they are a sealed unit and does not have an over flow pipe.

I would've thought those pipes should go down more central to the bike rather than sitting on the exhaust?

Would not fancy Coolant of or fuel on the back tyre 

That is a very valid shout. 
I looked at mine and they're just the other side of the exhaust but they look like they're in the correct position to me.
Maybe they are offset a little anyway where they are.

[unfazed]

Usually the Air Box drain comes out the left side and is run down through a hose holder on welded to the centre stand bracket

[xthib1]

The 2 pipes should be the coolant reservoir overflow and the fuel tank breather/drain hose, if so they are in the correct location, just ensure they are inside in the hose holder.

The battery is unlikely to be an issue as they are a sealed unit and does not have an over flow pipe.

I checked and they are in the hoses holder 

Unfazed, when you say "Loosen the screws a few turns to let all the fuel drain out"when you say" Where is the fuel going to come out??? (Sorry I'm a proper newbie in the motorcycle world  )


Also, I did try to start the bike without the choke, and it did start first time eventually but I still need to put the choke on afterwards to maintain the engine on, at least for a few minutes. Do you think it's normal ?


I have noticed this "tick tick tick" sound when starting, so it shouldn't be?

[Fazerider]

Unfazed, when you say "Loosen the screws a few turns to let all the fuel drain out", where is the fuel going to come out???

On the image Unfazed posted, he's labelled the drain holes for you!
I like to push a length of tubing onto each spigot in turn and drain the float bowls into a jam jar. It makes it easier to see what come out and if the fuel looks clean it can be tipped back into the tank.

Also, I did try to start the bike without the choke, and it did start first time eventually but I still need to put the choke on afterwards to maintain the engine on, at least for a few minutes. Do you think it's normal ?

No. Unless you live somewhere cold. It sounds as if the bike is running a bit leaner than it should be. Possibly it's a blocked jet, but check the idle setting, pilot screw positions, carb balance and TPS setting.

I have noticed this "tick tick tick" sound when starting, so it shouldn't be?

If it's a while since the bike was last used, the float bowls will have lost some fuel through evaporation and the fuel pump will tick away for a few seconds. When they're full the pump detects the increase in back pressure and cuts off. There is also a timer so if the carbs are completely empty it may cut off before they fill… in which case you need to switch off and turn on  the ignition again.

[darrsi]

The 2 pipes should be the coolant reservoir overflow and the fuel tank breather/drain hose, if so they are in the correct location, just ensure they are inside in the hose holder.

The battery is unlikely to be an issue as they are a sealed unit and does not have an over flow pipe.

I checked and they are in the hoses holder 

Unfazed, when you say "Loosen the screws a few turns to let all the fuel drain out"when you say" Where is the fuel going to come out??? (Sorry I'm a proper newbie in the motorcycle world  )


Also, I did try to start the bike without the choke, and it did start first time eventually but I still need to put the choke on afterwards to maintain the engine on, at least for a few minutes. Do you think it's normal ?


I have noticed this "tick tick tick" sound when starting, so it shouldn't be?

Is the ticking before you start the bike (fuel pump), or when the bike's running (cam chain)?


The choke, if needed but in normally very cold weather, should be put on a quarter or third of the way in BEFORE you start the bike, then adjusted so that the engine is ticking over comfortably for a minute, then it should be turned off.
If you start applying it after it's started then it will all get a bit messy.
But in this weather you should not need to use it at all, just a start and quick blip of the throttle should suffice then let it warm up for a minute or two.

[xthib1]

Wow... this is starting to get me worried 


So to sum up:

The ticking is BEFORE I start the bike and when I used the choke, I used to push it full... (but I will not anymore!) I do need to put the choke on to keep the engine ON.
So I guess I do have a problem with this bike 
 
Unfazed: I have never carried out this sort of thing, could you explain to me the detail of the operation? If I understand well, I will have to take the tank off, right? Or do I need to take the engine off??

 When they're full the pump detects the increase in back pressure and cuts off. There is also a timer so if the carbs are completely empty it may cut off before they fill… in which case you need to switch off and turn on  the ignition again.

Once again, if I understand well, I should switch the ignition on until the tick stops, on and off again until I it stops doing this sound? What does this do exactly?

[Fazerider]

We're not trying to worry you, it's clear that the bike basically works, it's just that it could be working better.
Yes, before pushing the starter button you want the carb float bowls to be full. This might take anything from zero to about 45 seconds pumping depending on how empty they are. The timer cuts off the pump after about 20 seconds as a safety feature so, if the carbs were empty to begin with, you may need to reset the timer by turning the ignition off and on again. When you can turn the ignition on without the pump ticking it means its finally managed to fill the float bowls and detect the resulting back pressure.
If you use the bike daily and it's not parked in full sun, it shouldn't lose much fuel from the carbs… less than ten seconds ticking is more normal. If yours needs more than that it indicates the fuel flow may be restricted or there is a leak somewhere or the pump is faulty.
The starting behaviour (needing choke) suggests the carbs need adjustment. If you're not confident to tackle the job there is no harm in paying a mechanic to sort them out for you. If you give us a clue where you're based, I'm sure some helpful foccer will be able to offer an opinion on the best place in your area. 

[xthib1]

Ha ha, I love this forum 


Thank you very much for your kind explanation Fazerider (and all the others as well ^^ ). I'll will try this manip and see if it changes anything.
At the moment I am trying to do as much as I can, like oil+ oil filter, coolant fluid, brake fluid, brake pads and so on. I have someone to help me to do the carbs adjustment and I'll try to do the fork oil change on my own....


Appart from that, I just need someone to explain to me in detail how to drain the float bowls.... Unfazed kindly showed me a picture with the screws I should use but I need a "step-by-step" on how to do it...


And to answer your question, I live in the south, in Poole. 

[darrsi]

The screws are literally a plug, you undo them and the fuel falls out!
The screws are traditionally made of the softest metal available, so use a decent fitting screwdriver and undo them VERY carefully, or you'll simply muller them.

[darrsi]

Best when the engine is cool too.

[xthib1]

Ok, so nothing to take apart then? I just go to the engine, find the screws, unscrew them, let the fuel come off and screw them back, right?

[darrsi]

Ok, so nothing to take apart then? I just go to the engine, find the screws, unscrew them, let the fuel come off and screw them back, right?

Basically yeah.
Put a rag or something else to soak up or redirect the fuel away from the engine if possible.
It's not a lot of fuel, we're only looking at roughly an egg cup full each time.


I'll warn you again though, use a proper fitting screwdriver and go easy on them, do not try and bodge it, otherwise it will all get a bit messy.

[xthib1]

Cheers Darrsi 


One more question though: I am servicing the bike and since the starting issue might come from blocked jet I was wondering whether it would be a good idea to clean the tank? However I don't know how to do that, any tips??

[xthib1]

So, in the end I did flush the float bowls and look what I found:


Now it starts on the button, just need to blip the throttle a few times and that's all. 


Thanks to everybody !