Jihad John gone

[bri h]

I don't think anything that happened in paris on Friday is remotely funny.

[Frosties]

The problem with blaming racism is there doesn't seem to be any Hindus or Sikhs blowing themselves up on busses.I saw an Imam on tv years ago after 9 11 saying not all Muslims were terrorists but all terrorists were Muslim.  Sad as it is he has a point.

Are you trying to be funny?

He's just stating a fact.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

So, tell me how Scottish independence, and the kind of nationalistic talk that you and others seeking it spout, helps integration?

You tell me what is anti-integration about Scottish Independence.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

He's just stating a fact.

What?!

[Frosties]

So, tell me how Scottish independence, and the kind of nationalistic talk that you and others seeking it spout, helps integration?

You tell me what is anti-integration about Scottish Independence.

I believe we have an integrated Nato nuclear policy which the SNP through there policy would remove. There's your starter for 10................

[bri h]

The fact is that as far as in aware the terrorist attacks I know of recently have been carried out by people calling themselves Muslims. I know that the vast majority of decent people that happen to be Muslims hate what they are doing.but they are definitely doing it. That's a fact.

[slappy]

Don't forget VNA is always right, the rest of us are just racist foccers.

[Hedgetrimmer]

So, tell me how Scottish independence, and the kind of nationalistic talk that you and others seeking it spout, helps integration?

You tell me what is anti-integration about Scottish Independence.

Are you trying to be funny? Separatism = integration? How does that work?

A gentleman would answer the questions being put to him, not counter with another question. Bloody politicians 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

A gentleman would answer the questions being put to him, not counter with another question. Bloody politicians 

It's difficult to answer a question that one simply doesn't understand.  And surely if one is to state that an Independent Scotland would be anti-integration then surely one needs to make that case.

Further I am lost as to what NATO has to do with social integration and cohesion.    I really am.

I believe we have an integrated Nato nuclear policy which the SNP through there policy would remove. There's your starter for 10................

Well first of all if Scotland decided to go it alone, one of the first things we would need to do is elect a government.  Scotland is a democratic country and would continue to be so.  Now unlike you I don't know if or when, at this moment in time, Scotland will become independent never mind who the first government is.  What I can tell you is that the independence movement is an inclusive movement.

Further the Labour Party have just voted against renewal of Trident, though again I'm lost as to what any of this has got to do with social integration and cohesion, multiculturalism etc.

[Frosties]

I heard he was not dead he has moved to Glasgow looking for VNA. No doubt VNA will not give a fuck either about those totally guilty French people who dared to be out this evening getting on with there lives and how dare they may have been enjoying themselves,

I was actually thinking myself that VNA could possibly be a total PRIZE CNUT and he didn't let me down!

What a reliable knob jockey!

I really should have listened to you two 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

The problem with blaming racism is there doesn't seem to be any Hindus or Sikhs blowing themselves up on busses.I saw an Imam on tv years ago after 9 11 saying not all Muslims were terrorists but all terrorists were Muslim.  Sad as it is he has a point.

An Imam stated that on TV.  Who?  Can you link to an article or clip?  I'd love to see that!    

So ETA, the IRA, UDA, Farc, Lord's Resistance Army, The Stern Gangs etc etc are all Muslim.  That's news to me.

And what about terrorism;

Was 'shock and awe' not an act of terror.  Was the invasion of Iraq not an act of international terrorism.  And why is it again that IS are crawling all over Iraq? 

Iraq - total documented dead since invasion - 224,000 and counting.

"We don't do body counts" - General Tommy Franks.  Well thank fuck somebody is Tommy you stupid ignorant murderous fuck!

What about Afghanistan and Libya (now also crawling with IS)

So tell me - who is terrorist. 

Oh you want some Hindu and Sikh terror - no problem;



http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2011/jan/19/india-hindu-terrorism-threat

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/27/punjab-police-station-attack-indian-troops-fight-gunmen-after-four-killed

So to state that all terrorists are Muslim, well either that's shear ignorance or outrageous racism.  You tell me!

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Meanwhile talking of Scottish Independence;

Recent research has shown that the war in Iraq is one of the most frequently mentioned reasons for people in Scotland turning their backs on The Labour Party.

Labour, the Conservatives and The Lid Dems have one MP each in Scotland.

[Frosties]

 

[Hedgetrimmer]

And what about terrorism;

Was 'shock and awe' not an act of terror.

Technically, no. Terrorism by definition is not selective of it's target. Before the campaign of shock and awe, Saddam was warned about what would happen, and could predict where the coalition would strike, i.e. at edifices of his regime. The whole point of terrorism is no one knows when or where it will strike, and it is non-discriminatory.

An illustration:

A lecturer on terrorism says to his students: "Anyone wearing jeans to any more lectures will be shot", pretending he has a gun in his pocket. Asked how they would react to this, the students said they wouldn't wear jeans to lectures again. They have a choice, and know what not to do to avoid being shot. This is intimidation; violence, or the threat thereof to make people conform to a certain pattern of behaviour. This is equivalent to "shock and awe".

The lecturer then picked out one student, pointed the pretend gun at him and said, "I've just shot you, you're dead." How would the students react to avoid the same thing happening to them? Was it the colour of his shoes? Was it where he sat in the lecture hall? Maybe it was his haircut? Fact is, they couldn't know. There was no way they could amend their behaviour to ensure they weren't next. The violence was totally arbitrary. It could involve innocents and 'guilty' alike. This is terrorism.

Meanwhile talking of Scottish Independence;

Recent research has shown that the war in Iraq is one of the most frequently mentioned reasons for people in Scotland turning their backs on The Labour Party.

And you think this only applies to the Scots?

[bri h]

You have a valid point about the terrorist attacks in India VNA  and I dearly wish I could validate the Imams statement from four years ago but I know what I saw and heard just as I know what I saw and heard about France Lebanon  and kenya over the weekend. You can state all the figures you want but your deluded if you dont accepted the threat that IS poses in tye name of Islam We all know that Iraq is all about America taking 80% of the oil and none of us think these drones killing innocent people is good but if you look at your own figures a large proportion of the murders in Iraq are executions. Most of us don't think thats a good idea either.

[Hedgetrimmer]

You have a valid point about the terrorist attacks in India VNA  and I dearly wish I could validate the Imams statement from four years ago but I know what I saw and heard just as I know what I saw and heard about France Lebanon  and kenya over the weekend. You can state all the figures you want but your deluded if you dont accepted the threat that IS poses in tye name of Islam We all know that Iraq is all about America taking 80% of the oil and none of us think these drones killing innocent people is good but if you look at your own figures a large proportion of the murders in Iraq are executions. Most of us don't think thats a good idea either.

I shouldn't bother, Bri. VNA is of the same mind as IS. He thinks we all need to atone for the West's actions and policy in the Middle East etc, whether we personally facilitated it or not. Same as he thinks because a labour government didn't represent his views, Scotland should leave the Union. The fact that politicians often don't represent the views of many in England or Wales is neither here nor there. Maybe THIS is terrorism?

[bri h]

Bless him he does seem to have the blinkers on Nick but he is a foccer so I love him really

[fazersharp]

The thing that erks me about the scottish referendum is that its only the scottish who were having a say when it should of been the whole country's choice. the rest of the country should of been asked do you want the scotts to stay.
I would of voted for them to go if only make the weather forecast half as long

[Hedgetrimmer]

Bless him he does seem to have the blinkers on Nick but he is a foccer so I love him really

Of course. VNA, I'd buy you a pint down the pub any day mate. Just so long as you promise not to talk about politics, and I promise I won't talk about military history 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Technically, no. Terrorism by definition is not selective of it's target. Before the campaign of shock and awe, Saddam was warned about what would happen, and could predict where the coalition would strike, i.e. at edifices of his regime. The whole point of terrorism is no one knows when or where it will strike, and it is non-discriminatory.

An illustration:

A lecturer on terrorism says to his students: "Anyone wearing jeans to any more lectures will be shot", pretending he has a gun in his pocket. Asked how they would react to this, the students said they wouldn't wear jeans to lectures again. They have a choice, and know what not to do to avoid being shot. This is intimidation; violence, or the threat thereof to make people conform to a certain pattern of behaviour. This is equivalent to "shock and awe".

The lecturer then picked out one student, pointed the pretend gun at him and said, "I've just shot you, you're dead." How would the students react to avoid the same thing happening to them? Was it the colour of his shoes? Was it where he sat in the lecture hall? Maybe it was his haircut? Fact is, they couldn't know. There was no way they could amend their behaviour to ensure they weren't next. The violence was totally arbitrary. It could involve innocents and 'guilty' alike. This is terrorism.

Is this an Israeli definition of terrorism perhaps?

Let me give you the dictionary definition;

The  use  of  violence  or  the  threat  of  violence,  especially  against  civilians,  in  the  pursuit  of  political  goals.     http://www.thefreedictionary.com/terrorism

The unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims:   http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/terrorism

the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.  http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/terrorism

So it is far from unreasonable to describe 'Shock and Awe' and the Iraq war as acts of terrorism.

And again, why do we now have IS?

[VNA - BMW Wank]

The fact that politicians often don't represent the views of many in England or Wales is neither here nor there.

But England voted for a Tory government.  England has the government it deserves.

Scotland has a government imposed on it by English voters.  We have only one Tory MP.

I just want what you have have - and that's the government that Scotland deserves.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Of course. VNA, I'd buy you a pint down the pub any day mate. Just so long as you promise not to talk about politics, and I promise I won't talk about military history 

That sounds perfectly reasonable.  I'd be happy to go a few rounds.

Now, what the foc am I doing in a political thread?! *exits stage left*

I thought you'd dropped this. 

Just to be clear, I don't think I've ever, and I don't intend ever to, start a political discussion here.

It's a bike forum for focs sake.

There are plenty of other forums out there for folks to argue politics online, and/or express their extreme or racist views. 

[Hedgetrimmer]

The fact that politicians often don't represent the views of many in England or Wales is neither here nor there.

But England voted for a Tory government.  England has the government it deserves.

Scotland has a government imposed on it by English voters.  We have only one Tory MP.

I just want what you have have - and that's the government that Scotland deserves.

I didn't vote Tory. Am I being punished with the government I deserve?

Is this an Israeli definition of terrorism perhaps?

No, the definition of terrorism I gave comes from a study by Rosemary H. T. O'Kane, Professor of Comparative Political Theory, School of Politics, International Relations and Philosophy, (SPIRE) UK.

why do we now have IS?

Yes, we have provoked muslim populations until we now have IS. And I agree, we ought to be changing our policies towards these regions. But why are you bleating about it here on a bike forum? Are members of FOC-U responsible for this? And aren't you just as responsible, by association with the government of the UK, though as me, you didn't vote for them and now wish to wash your hands of the Union? But rest assured, nothing we do now can change the direction of Islamic State:


http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/


You will remain a target as much as the rest of us. Oh well, that's terrorism for you.


I see you have beaten me to this - I'm gonna post it anyway 



P.S. have you read the discussion that follows the Oxford Dictionary definition? Interesting stuff. Apparently, dictionary definitions can change.


Yours sincerely,


A Rabid Rascist.

[pilninggas]

The fact that politicians often don't represent the views of many in England or Wales is neither here nor there.

But England voted for a Tory government.  England has the government it deserves.

Scotland has a government imposed on it by English voters.  We have only one Tory MP.

I just want what you have have - and that's the government that Scotland deserves.

But surely all that happens is you go around in circles? We say you had an independence vote, you say it was rigged in the Unions favour, we say it wasn't but you have an assembly and England doesn't and is fed-up with the West Lothian issue etc etc ad nauseum.

I bet Jihadi John lost a lot of sleep on this issue.

[lew600fazer]

Nice to see the French giving a little pay back this morning , go for it not really concerned how many they take out feck um !!!!