Dies without choke and kills battery

[Gaiare]

Hey guys. I have a 2000 fazer 600 with about 25k on it. Bike runs alright but idles sorta rough and dies after cold starts unless you boost the revs with the choke. Won't hold idle on its own cold. Holds idle fine when warm though and starts up very well.
It also rides jerky if youre rolling on idle revs. Almost thumpy.
There is also quite a noticeable vibration patch 5k-6k. Runs fine otherwise though.

Carbs were cleaned and syncd. Spark plugs changed. Air and oil filters changed. Oil changed. Don't know what else to do with it. Fuel filter?

Also bike has killed two batteries within two weeks. It has gotten colder here but still seems like an issue. Stator?
Would love some help. Thanks a lot guys.

[noggythenog]

Hey Gaire.......is that the Ukranian gold fazer?




Sounds like you have described the very reason the choke exists.......for cold starts.




Forgive me if i have read your description wrong but it sounds like you are starting the bike...maybe throttling it a bit...and then applying the choke.




Instead try this.......turn the key and wait until the fuel pump has finished ticking or priming..........then turn the choke to fully on.........press the starter until the bike starts.......wait 7 seconds & then gradually over the space of say 10-15 seconds take the choke off until it is fully off and let the bike idle with no choke for a minute.

[Gaiare]

It is indeed.
I've read a lot and most people say their fazer will start no choke? Mine actually started without having to use the choke at first too. Are you saying this isn't a concern?

[noggythenog]

It is indeed.
I've read a lot and most people say their fazer will start no choke? Mine actually started without having to use the choke at first too. Are you saying this isn't a concern?

Depend how cold it has got.......most will need choke in winter.......if you live in a steady climate then you might not need choke but if it has suddenly gone cold then the bike wont start the same old way it usually does and id revert to the type of way i described earlier.......then when the summer comes again youll be back to not needing choke again....thats why the choke is there.......stay away from the throttle....if you absolutely cannot start the bike or maintain combustion without the throttle then there is an issue but try the choke first.

[noggythenog]

P.s....not sure about the battery issue but im assuming the 2nd battery was a brand new from factory never used battery was it?

[Gaiare]

Yes brand new battery. Died within a week.

Any guesses as to the idle rolling jerkiness? Its weirdly thumpy both in acceleration and sound. Thanks for the advice man.

[noggythenog]

Yes brand new battery. Died within a week.

Any guesses as to the idle rolling jerkiness? Its weirdly thumpy both in acceleration and sound. Thanks for the advice man.

Bearing in mind it is a bike and they dont generally do too well at slow speeds without slipping the clutch a bit and applying throttle i wouldnt be too concerned with the jerkyness until youv checked out other things.



The thumpy thing Could be the HT leads.....mine did that once.....lumpy while stationary with throttle...i didnt bother trying to ride it....got advice on here which was to trim about 1cm off of the leads where they attach into the caps..


First though......make sure it is very dark and start up the bike & look at the head where all of the caps are and look for elecctric arcing from the top of the caps....give a bit of steady revs if required...not blips...just a bit more than idle.....if you see any sparks then one or more of the leads will need trimming...i actually used scissors to trim mine it isnt difficult........unplug the cap.....disconnect the lead from the end of the cap...trim tye lead end by 1 cm...not too much more.....then screw the lead back into the cap (it screws into the metal for a good contact)....then connect the cap back onto the plug.




Thats all i know about really but someone else will know better.....worth a try

[darrsi]

Possible TPS break down?

Give it a check for starters, it can make the bike feel jerky.

[Gaiare]

Its not hit negatives here but been consistently below 10 celcius. Is that choke appropriate cold? Bike runs and holds idle perfectly once warmed up. It just concerned me that it used to start right up no choke when I first bought it. The shop I took it to said the engine was in great shape and everything was changed except maybe the fuel filter.

About the jerkiness and vibration patch maybe I'm just nitpicking being used to riding fuel injected bikes and this is just how its supposed to run. The 5-6k patch isn't bad its just makes me short shift cause it starts to roar and then smooths out at 7k.

The battery thing still sorta worries me. Don't wanna buy a brand new one just to have it die on me again. The old one and a brand new in two weeks can't just be down to cold or something right? Should I bring it to a shop with a multimeter?

Thanks a ton guys. Sorry for all the stupid questions.

[darrsi]

Check the TPS.

[Jules-C]

Have you checked battery voltage when engine running? It should be between 13.5v and 14v with the engine above 2000rpm.  Readings outside this range indicate a problem with the rectifier/regulator that is killing the battery

[Gaiare]

Man my check oil light has been flashing for no apparent reason recently. I read that tps failure could cause random check engine flickers? Ill try and check it out. No random stalls and acceleration seems pretty smooth. Would a faulty tps be something a motorcycle mechanic would be able to notice without riding the bike? Cause ive had it listened to and checked out by a shop and they say its alright.


Yeah i got get into a shop and get the voltage checked out i guess. Dont wanna kill another new battery.


Thank you for your help.

[BBROWN1664]

If the carbs are in sync then the TPS needs to be done too. They should be done at the same time.
That will explain the lumpiness.
Cold starts will require a choke on many bikes. My FZS used the choke as do many others when cold.

As for batteries dying, sounds like you have something draining the battery. Do you have heated grips or anything connected directly to the battery?

[Gaiare]

Nope, bike is completely stock, crappy headlights and all. Its gotten cold here and bike did stand around for like a week something. Maybe it was just bad luck.


The thing is that it hasnt gotten any worse or better after having the carbs synced and plugs changed. If tps needs doing after carb sync id assume the mechanic would know to do that right?


Maybe im paranoid and this is just how fazers run. Its pretty smooth otherwise. Doesnt stall out when warm, hold idle fine. The previously described rough patch at 6k that others seem to have mentioned many times on other fazers. Power comes on around 7k like its supposed to.


If i post up a video where you could hear the idle would that be helpful?

[darrsi]

You sure you just haven't got enough oil in the bike.
On the centre stand on a level floor, run the bike for a minute, switch off the engine, then watch the oil settle in the oil sump window, when it's settled you want it around two thirds of the way up between the lower/upper level engine case markings.

Is there a possibility you may have any moisture in the fuel tank, that would cause similar issues that you've mentioned as well?

[Val]

Do this test for the battery and charging:

http://www.yuasabatteries.com/faqs.php?action=1&id=30

New battery can be faulty. Most likely if you do short trips you cannot charge the battery well hence the problem. Buy a charger.

In order to do the test you must charge the battery well beforehand. Do yourself a favor and buy a battery charger. Keep the bike all the time connected to the charger in the garage. Ukraine has cold winter and you really need to do that if you do not want to buy battery every month.

http://www.fc-moto.de/epages/fcm.sf/?ObjectPath=/Shops/10207048/Products/Oxford-Oximiser-900-Battery-Care&Currency=GBP&Locale=en_GB&ViewAction=ViewProductViaPortal&&utm_source=Portalexport_MBO&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping_GB&gclid=CKGp77nI8cgCFaYSwwodCRcN1g

[darrsi]

Do this test for the battery and charging:

http://www.yuasabatteries.com/faqs.php?action=1&id=30

New battery can be faulty. Most likely if you do short trips you cannot charge the battery well hence the problem. Buy a charger.

In order to do the test you must charge the battery well beforehand. Do yourself a favor and buy a battery charger. Keep the bike all the time connected to the charger in the garage. Ukraine has cold winter and you really need to do that if you do not want to buy battery every month.

http://www.fc-moto.de/epages/fcm.sf/?ObjectPath=/Shops/10207048/Products/Oxford-Oximiser-900-Battery-Care&Currency=GBP&Locale=en_GB&ViewAction=ViewProductViaPortal&&utm_source=Portalexport_MBO&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping_GB&gclid=CKGp77nI8cgCFaYSwwodCRcN1g

I only do short trips, albeit 5 days a week but NEVER charge the battery, and have left it for two months without starting it, then it's started first time.
The bike should be more than enough to keep a battery in good nick, as long as you use the bike regularly.

[noggythenog]

I will go bbrowns theory of a gadget or whatever draining the battery.


I always take my battery out every winter and store it in the cupboard.....in summer/autumn/early winter ie now i dont ride my bike often yet it will always have a charge.......my fz1 needed more power to get it starting because of the karge engine and sometimes id get the engine warning light if the battery was getting a bit close but for a normal ride of say 30 miles that should be ample to keep it charged.........how many miles do you do guire????




Actually i was reading somewhere recently....maybe on here that leaving a battery constantly on a charger is now a bad thing for them....bloody typical......but regardless thats 3 bikes ive had and used the same method and never had a problem.




Dont know if this makes a difference but even with my car i always switch everything off before killing the engine.......nowt worse than starting it up and light, radio, heaters, wipers & god knows what else all popping on........not sure but i always just assumed that they would somehow take a charge from the battery even when the ignition was off....another theory for foc-u to ponder anyway........i never use my kill switch either......dont know why but it irritates me when i see folk using it like an ignition switch.

[Gaiare]

Thanks a lot for all the info guys. really appreciate it


Bought a new battery, will have the bikes electrical system checked at the shop.


Yeah oil level is fine. I check everyday.


Ill get a video of a cold start and the idle in the garage once i can start the bike again and hope you guys can tell me im just being paranoid.


Hoping its not TPS issues, my throttle response is solid and no stalling issues. will get it checked out though.

[BBROWN1664]

On my 1999 FZS600, I used to start it with about 1/3 choke and no throttle (when it was cold).

[darrsi]

The trick that some people don't realise is to put the choke on first THEN start the bike.
Otherwise if you do things the opposite way round it all gets a bit messy.

[Gaiare]

Yeah i was starting it cold with the choke off, and then boosting the rpms to about 3k with the choke so it wouldnt die on me. Will do it the way outlined in the thread.

[noggythenog]

The trick that some people don't realise is to put the choke on first THEN start the bike.
Otherwise if you do things the opposite way round it all gets a bit messy.

+1

[BBROWN1664]

+1

Choke and NO throttle

[Gaiare]

Hey guys. So I had the bike checked and the multimeter reading was right on. Put in a battery and its been holding perfectly fine. Must have just been a crappy coincidence.

Thanks a ton for teaching me the choke thing. Starts and actually idles way better now. Helped a lot.

I have gotten concerned about this oil light thing. It comes on for a couple seconds from time to time. Oil level is right in between the markers and was measured out to manual specification when being changed. Should I get my oil pressure checked? Should I maybe put a thicker oil in now that it's cold?

The bike oil level was over filled when I got it and was ridden that way briefly before I changed the oil and filter. Could that somehow impact my oil light?

Again. Thank you all for all the help.