Rear Axle

[HarryHornby]

Hi All,


A couple of questions today, if I may, all related.


The cover at the back of the swing arm where the adjuster nuts are is loose and rattles, is this ok?  I recently adjusted the chain and it was ok then.  I'm guessing the axle has moved since adjustment or is this cover being a bit loose totally normal?  It's the cover on the brake side of the swing arm


Second, when I adjusted the chain I noticed that the washer between the axle bolt and the swing arm on both sides of the swing arm has pushed in the metal where the adjuster marks are, it looks like both washers are too small.  Therefore, what's the diameter of both washers please?


Cheers

[darrsi]

It's not so much a cover, but actually the plate that secures the wheel in place to prevent the wheel going out of line, so no, neither side should be loose or have any play at all.

[HarryHornby]

That's what I thought, but it was tight when I adjusted the chain so something has moved which, given the bending of the swingarm where the washer pushes tight I'm even more convinced that the washers are moving.

[HarryHornby]

UPDATE.....


I think I know why the washer is pushing in the metal  (the gap where the axle runs through the swing arm) the washer on the brake side is saucer shaped, so when I tighten it it's not totally flat against the swing arm.  It needs a new one.  Does anyone have one?


So, removing the rear axle...... is it as simple as removing brake caliper then banging the axle all the way through and out the other side while catching the falling wheel?  That's how it looks in Haynes.


Cheers

[midden]

If removing axle to change washers and adjusters no need to remove caliper or wheel.  Just remove axle enough to clear one side and replace whatever then  use socket bar in place of axle as you remove it rest of the way out

[Val]

Note the axle spacers between the swingarm and the outer bearing spacer are not symmetric I mean look at Haynes the left and right one are different shape and depth. Mine has been swaped the wrong way and I fixed that when changed the chain and the sprockets.

[HarryHornby]

OK, I got a new washer for the offside of the axle from a chap on here.  Took axle out and put the new washer on and when I looked it looked like this



The one on the nearside sits totally flush, surely it shouldn't be bending like this?


I used my torque wrench (it's not the most expensive one, I got it from Argos) a few years ago and have used it for my rear axle for years (that's why I bought it).  I never had a problem with my first FZS600.


Anyway, I did it up to 117Nm and this is the result.  Doesn't look good does it?     Do you reckon it's ok to ride?  Obviously I need to sort it but how, not sure.


Cheers

[red98]

117Nm........you sure thats correct, sounds a bit high to me....

[HarryHornby]

that's what it says in haynes


what do you do your one to red?

[Val]

yes I've done mine to 117nm as per the manual too.

But your does not look right. Are you sure the torque wrench is calibrated?

Here how mine looks:

[red98]

Dont use a torque wrench on the wheel spindle, iam old remember so do it by feel  ....just out of interest see if you can undo it with the spanner and extension in the bikes tool kit....is the swinging arm beneath the washer distorted at all ?.

[celticdog]

Yep you've got a bit of plastic deformation there. Not to worry mines the same albeit not as bad as yours. The nut head's nicely rounded and a bit rusty too, might be time to replace the axle. You can't complain- she's getting on a bit in years.    Like red98 I also do it by feel.

[HarryHornby]

Val, the torque wrench is a challenge one from Argos, has always been ok in the past, I always release the tension before putting away but I've never had it callibrated.


Red, yes the bits above and below the gap on the swing arm where the axle passes are distorted, were like this before I started fiddling.  The whole point of the fiddling was because I noticed my washer looked like a dinner plate, but nothing like it does now.


I don't think the washer I got off the chap on here was much cop though.  It was straight enough (unlike my old one) but it had deep pitting where the bolt on previous bike had pushed into it.  I turned it around so that part was agains the swing arm, I'm guessing it's thinner and weaker because of the deformation and so buckled worse than the old one.


Celtic dog, I was thinking new axle too, but I have to do everything on such a tight budget I doubt I could afford that, I tried to do it cheap and failed ha ha


I think I will take it all apart again but put the old washer on the other way round, see how that goes.  I'll only have until it gets dark tomorrow though, Saturday is fully booked up.  Don't want to miss another fazer ride out :-(


grrrrrr

[anutz]

so mine is done to 112Nm, i did not feel happy with that extra 5Nm 


I am not sure why the washer on yours is bowed, has it been over tightened in the past?


I ask as i have in the past over tightened a bolt and the washer was the first thing to go....it bent....

[stevie-g1968]

My axel washers are like that and im not worried,  I use the feel factor.. 30years of swinging tools. Your end plates should not rattle... I ignore the alignment marks and measure the distance from the swing arm to rim... and a long straight edge to front wheel

[darrsi]

The 'washer' is more for alignment purposes, be grateful your wheel is firmly tightened up and straight, that's all that counts.

[red98]

from memory    iam old remember  ....the two chain adjusters that slot into the end of the swinging arm,they only go in one way but it is possible to fit them the wrong way round,different shape and size,parhaps the larger size is to support the inside face of the swinging arm.....just a thought.......yep,that washer does look well used unlike VAL`s...i`ll have a look in my spares pile might have a replacement spindle,washer & nut ,if i find it i`ll bring it with me on sunday   

[HarryHornby]

I get that Darrsi, but, if it's bent like this surely it's putting strain on the edges of the gap where the axle goes through the swing arm, surely it should be flush to avoid damage to this area.


I'll speak to my local stealer and see how much a new axle is, couldn't see one on wemoto

[HarryHornby]

from memory    iam old remember  ....the two chain adjusters that slot into the end of the swinging arm,they only go in one way but it is possible to fit them the wrong way round,different shape and size,parhaps the larger size is to support the inside face of the swinging arm.....just a thought.......yep,that washer does look well used unlike VAL`s...i`ll have a look in my spares pile might have a replacement spindle,washer & nut ,if i find it i`ll bring it with me on sunday 

I think I get where you are comming from, I didn't take those out.  Can you see the difference without removing them?

[maxzer1500]

Val, the torque wrench is a challenge one from Argos, has always been ok in the past, I always release the tension before putting away but I've never had it callibrated.


Red, yes the bits above and below the gap on the swing arm where the axle passes are distorted, were like this before I started fiddling.  The whole point of the fiddling was because I noticed my washer looked like a dinner plate, but nothing like it does now.


I don't think the washer I got off the chap on here was much cop though.  It was straight enough (unlike my old one) but it had deep pitting where the bolt on previous bike had pushed into it.  I turned it around so that part was agains the swing arm, I'm guessing it's thinner and weaker because of the deformation and so buckled worse than the old one.


Celtic dog, I was thinking new axle too, but I have to do everything on such a tight budget I doubt I could afford that, I tried to do it cheap and failed ha ha


I think I will take it all apart again but put the old washer on the other way round, see how that goes.  I'll only have until it gets dark tomorrow though, Saturday is fully booked up.  Don't want to miss another fazer ride out :-(


grrrrrr

  If you reverse the washer it's probably only going to flatten then dish itself with the tightness of the spindle nut. My 600 was the same so think it's normal, if you're happy with tightness of spindle, alignment and chain tension, just leave it and deal with the real issue which is the sliders/end plates. With wheel tight, nip up the first adjusting nut by one or two flats each side. I find one turn is too slack and two is too tight so i go one and a half, in other words a flat to a flat then to the next corner. Just be sure to use two spanners to lock the two nuts together and there shouldn't be any later slackness.

[maxzer1500]

The solid part of the slider face inwards. Are Vals and anutz's washers new and still to achieve the dished shape, are they yamaha washers or just washers?

[Paul]

To Harry


The sprocket carrier bearing and drive side rear wheel bearing collapsed on my bike last year.... the bike had done around 78,000 at that point.


I still wonder whether over-tightening the nut many times was the cause..... they could have simply worn out of course.


In any event I wouldn't over-tighten the rear axle nut. 

[anutz]

i second that, the fact the washer is bent to me anyway means it has been overtightened....



regardless- make sure its sound and you have no doubts....its not worth any risk with that component...it is after all keeping the rear wheel where is should be 


if it was me i would get a new axel and washer as well as the nut etc...

[darrsi]

Yep you've got a bit of plastic deformation there. Not to worry mines the same albeit not as bad as yours. The nut head's nicely rounded and a bit rusty too, might be time to replace the axle. You can't complain- she's getting on a bit in years.    Like red98 I also do it by feel.

"...she's getting on in years.    Like red98..."


Bit harsh.......

[darrsi]

My guess is that at some stage someone without a torque wrench has either used an extension bar, stood on the ratchet or hammered the nut home.
There's not much you can do about it now, and it's not like you can tighten it any more into the wheel.
The swingarm is obviously a tad concaved, but as long as you don't go past the torque setting ever again it 'should' be fine.
That washer is spreading the load over the swingarm, so even though it's a little bent it should still align okay.