speed camera loophole

[maddog04]

saw this on another site..................interesting!!
 
http://governmentauctionsuk.com/auction-guide-details/speed-camera-loophole-exposed/1551?guide_type=motoring
 
your thoughts ladies and gents, especially those with impending NIP's?

[kitcrazy]

  im gonna look into it great find 

[Hedgetrimmer]

Sorry Mel, don't bother 
 
See latest entries on your original thread "advice".
 
And I know for fact it won't work, cos I didn't know about a NIP I should have got because I'd just moved - they put out a warrant for my arrest! Then they just do you when they do catch up with you.

[rustyrider]

If you read the NIP carefully, you'll see that it is actually a Magistrates Courts Act Section 9 statement.  So by filling it in with your details and then signing it, you are sending them a signed statement admitting you committed the offence.  However, as pointed out in the article, there is nothing in law to force you to sign it, only to give the details of the driver/rider (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/172).  Other people have tried sending the requested details in on a letter rather than using the form.  You have complied with the law by giving the details they have requested but not in a form that can be used in court.

However, it can backfire as I found out a few years ago.  I sent my details in as a letter and still got a summons.  In fact I got two, one for failing to provide the information and another for speeding even though they had no evidence of who was riding at the time.  I was found not guilty of failing to provide details as it was obvious that I had (prosecution produced my letter as evidence that I hadn't supplied the information and I produced the same letter as evidence that I had, magistrate took one look at it and dropped the charge) but that was then used as evidence for the speeding charge.  Got 3 points and a £120 quid fine instead of £60 if I had simply rolled over and taken it.  Entertaining way of spending an afternoon though and I was subsequently told by a solicitor that I should have asked for the two charges to be heard separately with the speeding charge (where they had no evidence of who was driving) heard first......

One other point to remember.  Information must be laid before the court within 6 months of the offence (which will result in a summons being sent out within a couple of days).  So if, by slowing things down by not signing, not fully completing the NIP or writing asking for copies of the tape or anything else you can drag it out for over 6 months, then a court case won't happen.  If you do nothing, as happened with Nick, then it will go to court (within the 6 months), you will be found guilty and when you don't pay the fine because you don't know anything about it, a warrant will be issued.  They give you 28 days to send the NIP back in so do it, or any reply to it, on the 27th day.

[Fazafou]

Unfortunately this stuff goes against usual law and has gotten away with it.

Firstly, innocent till proven guilty, and secondly the right to not give evidence to incriminate yourself.

[maddog04]

I posted this before seeing it in a reply to Mels post so apologies to all for the repeat
 
as for Nick's advice, I think because you didn't know about your NIP then they assumed you'd blanked them and done you for it
I'd be tempted to fill the form in and not sign it, I don't know how the Courts get away with this anyway as you're self incriminating, maybe another area for a clever lawyer to look at (or is this where Mr Loophole gets all his clients off on the technicality?)

[BBROWN1664]

My brother got something similar a few years ago. His car was involved in an accident apparently but the date/time of the alleged offence (failing to stop etc) on the form he could prove his car was elsewhere so he wrote a letter stating that no-body was driving his car at the time/date/location stated.
He got a summons for failing to furnish the drivers details and other offences. He then spent several weeks in "discussion" with the CPS to get them to admit they had ballsed up by ignoring his letter. It was all dropped in the end but a lot of agro to get there.

[Fazerider]

Does this still apply?
It can hardly have resulted in a flood of speeding fine evaders, the original article is more than a decade old.

[BBROWN1664]

Not in England and Wales. You can use it in Jockland still though apparently.

[Hedgetrimmer]

I posted this before seeing it in a reply to Mels post so apologies to all for the repeat
 
as for Nick's advice, I think because you didn't know about your NIP then they assumed you'd blanked them and done you for it
I'd be tempted to fill the form in and not sign it, I don't know how the Courts get away with this anyway as you're self incriminating, maybe another area for a clever lawyer to look at (or is this where Mr Loophole gets all his clients off on the technicality?)

No,it wasn't that. They accepted that I didn't know about it because I was just in the process of moving when the NIP was issued. I had to go into a police station for something, think it was to do with an accident I'd been involved in, and then got told about the warrant that had been issued.
 
When I went to court, they didn't even mention the fact that I hadn't replied to the NIP - I did go to a police station voluntarily after all about something totally unconnected - just did what they normally would have done.

[bigralphie]

This is years out of date if you don't sign the NIP you will get summons for that too

[rustyrider]

No you won't.  Read Section 172 that I posted a link to.  The law says that you must give the information but does not say in what format or that it must be signed.  The only thing they can summons you for is failing to provide the information or speeding.  Although my experience is that they will try both, it's how clever you are with playing the system as to whether you get let off or not.

[kitcrazy]

   thats me fuked then just have to hope for a ban over xmas time and spend more time in the pub till summer

[bigralphie]

we will have agreed to disagree i think but having been summons 6 months ago I looked into every angle and IMHO its a non starter that would only make the outcome worse