Date: 15-06-24  Time: 19:37 pm

Author Topic: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error  (Read 19502 times)

unfazed

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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #50 on: 04 August 2014, 05:29:56 pm »
I have seen clocks do amazing thing and it  is always wise to keep an open mind when fault finding.

Yes it looks like the TPS as 20 Megohms is definitely wrong. should go from about 5k to about 1.5k

The Yamaha boxed TPS is over €250 and the OEM part number is 4SV-85885-00, but it was superseded by part number 4HD-85885-00   whereas the Suzuki boxed one part number 13550-13D60 is exactly the same and costs about €90.

Check ebay for a secondhand one as they are the same as the ones fitted to the early carburettor R1s.

Fazer spares in Bristol Uk have a used TPS http://www.fazerspares.com/items/131-1_3128-throttle-positioning-sensor---tps.htm. I have bought many items from them over the years and found them to be good to deal with and will probably post to your area

Let me know as I always have a spare one just would have to go looking for it.

darrsi

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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #51 on: 05 August 2014, 12:39:59 pm »
I have seen clocks do amazing thing and it  is always wise to keep an open mind when fault finding.

Yes it looks like the TPS as 20 Megohms is definitely wrong. should go from about 5k to about 1.5k

The Yamaha boxed TPS is over €250 and the OEM part number is 4SV-85885-00, but it was superseded by part number 4HD-85885-00   whereas the Suzuki boxed one part number 13550-13D60 is exactly the same and costs about €90.

Check ebay for a secondhand one as they are the same as the ones fitted to the early carburettor R1s.

Fazer spares in Bristol Uk have a used TPS http://www.fazerspares.com/items/131-1_3128-throttle-positioning-sensor---tps.htm. I have bought many items from them over the years and found them to be good to deal with and will probably post to your area

Let me know as I always have a spare one just would have to go looking for it.



Always handy to have a spare TPS in yer pocket, you just never know when they're gonna break down....... :lol
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unfazed

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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #52 on: 07 August 2014, 03:12:41 pm »
and a spare set of clocks, regulator, alternator, carburettors, coils, spark plug caps clutch lever, brake lever and Ignitor  :lol


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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #53 on: 04 September 2014, 10:36:41 pm »
to the OP: just fixed my mates Fizzy which had the same prob. a new TPS sorted it. where are you upto with this?
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arieljt

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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #54 on: 19 September 2014, 07:26:14 pm »
to the OP: just fixed my mates Fizzy which had the same prob. a new TPS sorted it. where are you upto with this?

Sorry for the late response.
This is very interesting! Did he have the 5K-0 problem exactly like I did?  :eek
What happened since my last post:
I went to a Yamaha shop and they brought another fazer, took his ICU and connected it to my fazer. Nothing changed! They had no idea what is it but they insisted that it has nothing to do with the TPS and they showed me what happens when they disconnected the TPS from the other guy's fazer (not the same problem like I have).

I'm still stuck with the bad tacho and i'm still searching for one, having a bit tight budget at the moment i'll get back to it later.

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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #55 on: 21 September 2014, 08:31:27 am »
Sorry for the delay
My pals tach was all over the place. Can't remember the exact patterns of reading but 5k and 3k came into it and his TPS was way out of spec. As the TPS works by varying VOLTAGE to the ICU then the tacho can do strange things with a TPS that is offering up increased resistance and thus varying volts
Looks like you have been advised several times above to replace the TPS , I'm surprised you haven't done this and still wondering what the problem is. If it is the clocks then you won't know until you have fitted a new TPS as if TPS doesnt work (unlikely but theoretically possible as per unfazed comment) then the clocks are far more expensive and you could easily sell on a new unused TPS
Get on with it mate !
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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #56 on: 22 September 2014, 03:10:06 pm »
I wanted to do it but there's one thing that's holding me back - how am I going to tune the TPS correctly if my tacho is (indeed) messed up?
Then i'll be stuck with two problems  :wall

darrsi

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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #57 on: 22 September 2014, 03:34:29 pm »
I wanted to do it but there's one thing that's holding me back - how am I going to tune the TPS correctly if my tacho is (indeed) messed up?
Then i'll be stuck with two problems  :wall


Can't you mark the exact position of the old TPS before removing it, then if it still happens with the new one then at least you have something to fall back on.


You say it goes to 5Krpm when unplugged, that isn't normal, it should go to 3Krpm, so that would point to the problem being elsewhere?
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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #58 on: 22 September 2014, 07:50:52 pm »
REPLACE THE TPS.
 :groan
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darrsi

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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #59 on: 22 September 2014, 09:14:45 pm »
REPLACE THE TPS.
 :groan

Explain why with NO TPS, it shows 5K rpm?

I'm normally the first to say they can play up or break down, because i've had to change 2 on my bike, but the reading he's getting unplugged is simply incorrect, hinting at another issue elsewhere!
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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #60 on: 22 September 2014, 09:18:52 pm »
I have done
 :wall I give up and tired of this so good luck arieljt , I'm outta here
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darrsi

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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #61 on: 23 September 2014, 12:50:56 am »
I have done
 :wall I give up and tired of this so good luck arieljt , I'm outta here


Actually all you've done is explain symptoms of a faulty TPS!


Doesn't matter, 'cos you won't be reading this anyway.  :b
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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #62 on: 23 September 2014, 10:27:21 pm »
nope, soz, still here mate. if I get that pissed off I normally sign off with "un-notified, good luck!"

in this case it is simply too amusing too let go. I mean the guys has been advised / told several times. he wants the help but isnt acting on it. there can only be  surely 4 root cause failure modes here, in order of my evaluation (based on likelyhood, cost and complexity to diagnose...)

1. TPS
2. ICU
3. Clocks
4. wiring

1. TPS adjusts voltage fed to the ICU so the return volts to the clocks can and will vary if there is a problem; without knowing every single failure mode of a TPS/ICU combination and the corresponding voltage routed to the clocks, one cannot assert with confidence that the 5K problem is not the TPS, even if it is disconnected and the clock still reads 5K, you dont know what the TPS/ICU has caused, that in turn has led to the anomalous error if indeed the error is anomalous? I suspect however that the ICU is a simple CDI unit ?? but have not seen a diagram of the fazer 600 ICU internals
So all can be done simply and relatively cheaply using a breaker part or something , is to replace the TPS and reset the system. This is the easiest and quickest fix, and has worked before on  a 5K error I was working on.

2. If the TPS fix doesnt work then a simple swap out of the ICU is called for; you can pick one up off fleabay cheap as chips:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_kw=yamaha+fazer+600+ignition+unit
The OP may wish to try this first (than the TPS) but I've never heard of an ICU fail - for sure they do - I just never heard of one since 1989 hence the TPS suggestion from me. So then the OP has to sell the ICU and I dont hear much call for ICUs but plenty of demand for TPSs !!

3. If the TPS nor ICU fix solve the problem, then we're looking at the clocks or wiring; clocks may be providing erroneous values. The clocks can be tested on a bench with a power supply with a selectable voltage output; the tacho works on volts and this can easily be driven; however, the OP would need to remove the tacho, get a selectable power supply, and do some bench testing. Even then, if the clocks are in error, then he'd still have to buy a replacement. Hence the TPS and ICU fixes came first above; cheaper and easier to diagnose.

3. If the TPS, ICU and clocks hasnt fixed the issue, then its down to wiring. To strip the bike and trace the wiring through all the looms and check all wires. Good luck!

so there you are, an explanation as requested.
« Last Edit: 23 September 2014, 11:22:31 pm by tweetytek »
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darrsi

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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #63 on: 23 September 2014, 11:42:07 pm »
Thank you, and you made it sound so interesting too.  :lol
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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #64 on: 24 September 2014, 07:12:04 am »
Strange, cos I fell asleep when compiling that crap  :lol
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arieljt

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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #65 on: 24 September 2014, 05:38:27 pm »
nope, soz, still here mate. if I get that pissed off I normally sign off with "un-notified, good luck!"

in this case it is simply too amusing too let go. I mean the guys has been advised / told several times. he wants the help but isnt acting on it. there can only be  surely 4 root cause failure modes here, in order of my evaluation (based on likelyhood, cost and complexity to diagnose...)

1. TPS
2. ICU
3. Clocks
4. wiring

1. TPS adjusts voltage fed to the ICU so the return volts to the clocks can and will vary if there is a problem; without knowing every single failure mode of a TPS/ICU combination and the corresponding voltage routed to the clocks, one cannot assert with confidence that the 5K problem is not the TPS, even if it is disconnected and the clock still reads 5K, you dont know what the TPS/ICU has caused, that in turn has led to the anomalous error if indeed the error is anomalous? I suspect however that the ICU is a simple CDI unit ?? but have not seen a diagram of the fazer 600 ICU internals
So all can be done simply and relatively cheaply using a breaker part or something , is to replace the TPS and reset the system. This is the easiest and quickest fix, and has worked before on  a 5K error I was working on.

2. If the TPS fix doesnt work then a simple swap out of the ICU is called for; you can pick one up off fleabay cheap as chips:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_kw=yamaha+fazer+600+ignition+unit
The OP may wish to try this first (than the TPS) but I've never heard of an ICU fail - for sure they do - I just never heard of one since 1989 hence the TPS suggestion from me. So then the OP has to sell the ICU and I dont hear much call for ICUs but plenty of demand for TPSs !!

3. If the TPS nor ICU fix solve the problem, then we're looking at the clocks or wiring; clocks may be providing erroneous values. The clocks can be tested on a bench with a power supply with a selectable voltage output; the tacho works on volts and this can easily be driven; however, the OP would need to remove the tacho, get a selectable power supply, and do some bench testing. Even then, if the clocks are in error, then he'd still have to buy a replacement. Hence the TPS and ICU fixes came first above; cheaper and easier to diagnose.

3. If the TPS, ICU and clocks hasnt fixed the issue, then its down to wiring. To strip the bike and trace the wiring through all the looms and check all wires. Good luck!

so there you are, an explanation as requested.


I do listen and do act according to your advice and I do value it greatly, I'm sorry if it seemed otherwise  ;)

I'll answer each diasgnosis:
1 - TPS - The TPS was disconnected and the battery of the bike was removed and replaced. The bike was fired up and the tacho still shows 5K regardless of TPS connected/disconnected.
2 - ICU(/+TPS) - The ICU unit of the bike was replaced with a working ICU from another costumer's fazer of the same model and year, the tacho still showed 5K (also regardless of disconnecting - connecting the TPS).
3 - Clocks - The clocks was blamed to be faulty by the Yamaha garage, they said that it's likely that the previous owner connected a car to jumpstart the motorcycle which fried the clocks. I didn't replaced them as it was way too expensive for me at the moment.
4 - Wiring - I mentioned before that I checked the wiring between the ICU and the TPS and they were good. I didn't check the wiring between the ICU and the clocks though, but i believe that they are good since they rest of the clock's light functions correctly.

I would like to thank you all for helping a new fazer owner with his troubles! it's not for granted to have such a great community supporting  :thumbup

I think the next time I update this thread will be when I get my hands on a new set of clocks or when I found out the problem ultimately (A-men).

for now, I have problems with the carbs flooding and i'm on a new adventure with it, and i'll open another thread when I gather my thoughts.
Once again, Cheers mates!

unfazed

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« Last Edit: 24 September 2014, 08:29:22 pm by unfazed »

tweetytek

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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #67 on: 24 September 2014, 09:04:48 pm »

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-Fazer-FZS-600-Clocks-Speedo-Speedometer-KM-PH-/231297172197?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item35da62c2e5

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TPS-SENSOR-SUZUKI-SV-S-650-2003-2010-/400772208781?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item5d4fe2988d


 :)

He doesn't need the TPS  :b (didnt know the SV fits, I knew the TPS off the early TDM works too) but he has already decided its a clocks problem so great link although that yellow dial would have to go but hey, beggers/choosers.
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darrsi

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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #69 on: 25 September 2014, 09:51:29 am »

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-Fazer-FZS-600-Clocks-Speedo-Speedometer-KM-PH-/231297172197?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item35da62c2e5

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TPS-SENSOR-SUZUKI-SV-S-650-2003-2010-/400772208781?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item5d4fe2988d


 :)

He doesn't need the TPS  :b (didnt know the SV fits, I knew the TPS off the early TDM works too) but he has already decided its a clocks problem so great link although that yellow dial would have to go but hey, beggers/choosers.



What was that???
Did i hear you say he DOESN'T need a TPS???  :pokefun
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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #70 on: 25 September 2014, 10:19:47 am »
He has decided he doesn't need a TPS , he made that clear above. I was merely paraphrasing his diagnosis, not mine
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darrsi

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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #71 on: 25 September 2014, 10:57:26 am »
He has decided he doesn't need a TPS , he made that clear above. I was merely paraphrasing his diagnosis, not mine


Oh, i see......  :lol
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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #72 on: 25 September 2014, 10:59:17 am »
Nice  try tho mate  :D
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darrsi

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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #73 on: 25 September 2014, 11:03:09 am »
Nice  try tho mate  :D


You are joking, obviously?   :look
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Re: Tachometer jumps to 5K, couldn't find any info on error
« Reply #74 on: 25 September 2014, 11:13:33 am »
I couldn't give a shit TBH ... Like most people here, I help out, I receive as well. Nobody is forced to listen to me and visa-ve . upto him
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