Building Question - MOT road stone

[phil on a fazer]

HI
 
Went to Wickes to get a builders bag of MOT road stone for £48...then found out for the delivery charge is £25....i live a mile down the road!
 
They sell 25 kilo bags of "granular sub base"....is that the same as road stone? trying to get sense out of the staff at my local Wickes is near on impossible.
 
Want it for a patio I'm building, need to build the ground level up a bit.
 
Tar

[GrahamB]

Have you tried any of your "real" local builders merchants? Jewson, Buildland, Edwards etc? Wickes are NOT cheap for building materials, trust me. I have just built a double garage in my back garden using blocks & bricks. 1 ton bag of sand/stone for concrete making from my local Buildland is £34.00 + £9.00 delivery. I have been ordering as much stuff as I can accommodate in 1 go to save on delivery charges. It's also know as ballast if that helps? You MUST shop around in order to save your pennies. 

[chris.biker]

I all way use hard core (old bricks and concrete etc). it is worth looking round the neighbour hood for some one filling a skip. even if you do not get all you want it will reduce the amount you need to by in.

[chris.biker]

To answer your question both products will be fine for building the ground up, remember you should remove all soil from the area first leaving the base on the sub soil.

[pitternator]

SOMETIMES IT CAN BE CHEAPER TO CONTACT  A LOCAL HAULAGE FIRM, WHO SPECIALIZE IN SAND AND GRAVEL DELIVERY.
 
I am a builder and these days for just 1 ton ( ie no other items) , now that many merchants are charging delivery on top, it still can be as cheap to use these guys. Usually for anything over a ton, I use the hauliers. They also do use a proper weighbridge, so you get the weight you pay for. Oddly , they are the cheapest on cement too.
Also...dont buy aggregates in very wet weather....you pay for the weight of water !
 
Generally, you do get penalised for buying in small quantities. Often customers dont realise just how much we have to pay for materials. There is  an opportunism taken by merchants over delivery charges, I think they are excessive.There just is not the volume throughput  to generate profit by the material alone. In fact I think many merchants welcome private  clients cos they do rip them off. Builders will go elsewhere.

[phil on a fazer]

Sorted
 
Builders bag of road stone delivered is £41. (build base)
 
Asked about wickes granular sub base because i wasn't sure how much i needed, so buying it in 25 kilo bags and not having to have a day off work for delivery appealed to me........turns out i need a bit more than i thought so a builders bag will easily see me through.
 
I'm building a patio so i can put a shed on one side of it, clear junk out the garage into the shed, then buy another bike to keep the fazer company in the garage. simples 

[oldmotherfoccer]

glad you got sorted, i edited the title, to make sure the right people would reply, otherwise it looked like a bike MOT question lol

[GrahamB]

Nice one Phil. I built my double garage for the same reason. Fazer now resides with my 93 Fireblade & old faithful FZ750. 

[pitternator]

Phil
A good move. People often think concrete is the way to go, but in reality in most instances concrete just spreads the load over a wide area. On dodgy ground, thin concrete may crack as loads shift with ground movement , or  may even start to tip over.For very light domestic loading , tbh, well compacted soil will usually be OK, but clay soil is the issue, as it heaves and shrinks depending on ground water levels. As such , anything on clay should have  a good depth of MOT , well compacted( dont use big brick ends etc as it does not form a good crust) , and then ideally a pad of concrete to spread the load over this. But for a simple shed, well bedded paving slabs on a good hardcore layer is OK. Hardcore to be 150mm min, up to whatever ground condition dictates.

[CharlieDee]

To clarify the difference between a 'granular sub-base' and an 'MOT Type 1 Granular Sub-base' an MOT Granular Sub base has to meet the requirements of the local Highways Spec Clause 803 and the ticket or the bag should clearly state 'Meets Highways Spec. Clause 803. If this is not stated then then the material does not meet the approval of MOT classification and if this is required by the building regs or Highway for works you are carrying out and you can not provide the proof, they will request the removal and replacement of the correct material.
 
You can also go to your local Hard Rock Quarry or Aggregates Recycling Plant with a pickup or trailer and collect for between £12-£16/tonne +VAT 
 
Hope this helps.
 
P.S. Im not a builder - Qualified Quarry Manager and Concrete Rep in a previous life.

[pitternator]

We usually use type 1 for domestic use as its a 150mm min layer, so stone size needs to be small.Some MOt is not so well graded and has massive lumps in it , OK for deep layers, but not for us.It scheaper cos its not so well graded..
 
My local hauliers usually charge about £20 a ton for type 1  for loads over 5 tonnes.

[Sunny Intervals]

Been working on roads for years only thing I recognised was type1 

An Pits floating base, generally a good idea to reinforce them depending on area and loads.


 

[pitternator]

Its all down to loading. A structural engineer I knew worked out that for example a modern brick based  conservatory will sit quite happily on well compacted soil in terms of its weight , but the foundation is there to spread the load and sit on sub soil not likely to be subject to ground heave.He only wanted us to dig down to good subsoil even if its only say 18" down.A reinforced raft can sometimes be more convenient.
 
A couple of years back we built a 40m2 4 storey building on a reinforced raft , but it was on very good ground.Huge weight loading ... it took 23 cubic mtrs of readymix  and about 2 ton of steel !  ... let alone the 6000 bricks, 1000 blocks etc etc....
 
anyway ... back to Phils shed !     

[Sunny Intervals]

I remember back in another life time  .
We just used to dig till we found a good base of soil, and most of the council inspectors were happy with that.
Generally test it by eye and dropping inch thick digging bar about 6 inch's and seeing how far it went in, almost scientific 
It's one of those experience things you pick up. site awareness watching what the spoils like and such.
Had to bridge over an old well in Woodstock that was right on the corner of the single story extension we were putting in. bumped the cost up a bit for the client,
Don't see Clay Boards used on over sites now, seems Bradstone beams have taken over from the reinforced oversites, with space for movement underthem.

Oh, back in the day when I was a boy sigh 

[BIG MAC]

Soil mechanics etc will determine bearing capacity using a dynamic probe. The reason for sub base is to provide a reliable medium to transmit loads from the structure down into good bearing strata. I will often use crushed road planings from demolition companies for this as they compact very well. Granular fill is often used to make a 'contained formation' inside already cast footings and retaining walls, sometimes even above a raft to permit the casting of a higher level slab. Granular material particularly riverwash stone will tend to  'self compact' under its own weight.