Clutchless gearchange ok?

[darren_uk]

I'm in the habit of clutchless gearchanges (in both directions)

However, I don't know if this is ok or not, or if it's particularly bad for a FZS600 (May 2003 model)


Could you give your opinion? Especially those who know the anatomy of the FZS600's drive train.

[johna6968]

Clutchless downshifts not for me...

[mr self destruct]

As far as I'm aware, up is ok, down is not ok.

[adeejaysdelight]

Manufacturers fit a clutch for a reason mate. You don't use your engine to brake as well do you? Both bad, and potentially expensive, habits.

[bigralphie]

Up is fine it is a crash box afterall 

[His Dudeness]

Manufacturers fit a clutch for a reason mate. You don't use your engine to brake as well do you? Both bad, and potentially expensive, habits.

Whats wrong with engine braking?

[Hiswitsend]

Do both on occasion, have had lots of people say that down the box clutchless will damage it, but I don't think it stands up as the forces going through the cogs are far less when slowing down than when accelerating; it's just a wee bit more of a knack to get it smooth

[johna6968]

Manufacturers fit a clutch for a reason mate.

Manufacturers do indeed fit clutches for a reason.. Pullin away from standstill tends to get messy without it 

[Frosties]

1st to 2nd use the clutch, after that all clutchless going up the gears. Always clutch it going down the box though.


That's my style, everyone's different and haven't lost a box yet in xx yrs and xx bikes.


Crack on riding it your own way fella, if you lose a box then you may change your style........assuming that was the cause of the box failing - if it ever does.[size=78%] [/size]

[adeejaysdelight]

Manufacturers fit a clutch for a reason mate. You don't use your engine to brake as well do you? Both bad, and potentially expensive, habits.

Whats wrong with engine braking?

Brake pads are much cheaper than engines.


It causes unnecessary engine wear.


And your brake lights don't come on to warn following traffic that you are slowing up or stopping...


But what would I know.

[His Dudeness]

Manufacturers fit a clutch for a reason mate. You don't use your engine to brake as well do you? Both bad, and potentially expensive, habits.

Whats wrong with engine braking?

Brake pads are much cheaper than engines.


It causes unnecessary engine wear.


And your brake lights don't come on to warn following traffic that you are slowing up or stopping...


But what would I know.

What wear does it cause?

[Punkstig]

I always use engine braking, but not clutchless downshifts, that be daft!

[mickvp]

In answer to the op. I occasionally shift up the box clutchless...never down for me. I tend to use the clutch when just flitting about though.

I engine brake as well. In my view it actually causes more even wear on the box, never had any issues arise from it personally.

[Millietant]

I use both engine braking and actual brakes to slow down.


In answer to those who say engines (& gear boxes) are more expensive to replace than brakes - only if using engine braking actually causes your engine/gearbox to break.


In nearly 40 years of riding, I've never had an engine break on me - despite clocking up over 50k miles on many of them - and using engine braking every time I ride.


Personally, I've spent far more on replacing brake pads and discs than I have on replacing/repairing worn out engines or gearboxes.

[richfzs]

Not sure why engine braking causes wear? Those folks with big twins must wear their motors really fast, huh?

[Hiswitsend]

+1 for the confusion over the extra wear, are people who don't use engine braking pulling the clutch in and coasting on the brakes until they accelerate again?


If you are braking with the drive still engaged and are braking faster than engine braking alone, then there are more forces acting on the drive train from the rear wheel increasing the rate at which the engine is being decelerated over and above the natural engine braking from being off throttle, no?


Or maybe it's just late 

[richfzs]

If you're giving it a big handful of revs to change down a couple of gears to get more engine braking, rather than just slowing naturally in whatever gear you're in, then you're wasting motion lotion and would be better off using the brakes, but still can't see much wear occuring (well maybe if you're changing down to the extent you're redlining the motor, but nobody is that mechanically unsympathetic, are they?)


Jeez, what am I saying, they'll be out there....

[Millietant]

Not sure why engine braking causes wear? Those folks with big twins must wear their motors really fast, huh?

I ride a big twin (Aprilia RSV) and use engine braking an awful lot, especially on track - no worn motor in 11 years and over 30k miles !


My wife doesn't like following me on this as much as when I'm on my FJ 1200 - only because I don't use the brakes as much, so she has to pick he own braking points

[His Dudeness]

At worst it'll increase clutch plate wear a bit but couldn't it be by much. If you were going down that line of thinking you wouldn't go above 20mph because you're increasing wear on everything or you wouldn't go above 3000 RPM because you're wearing out the engine faster. It's not going to cause any appreciable wear imo. It's just part of riding a bike. If you're not doing it you're losing out on a lot of stopping power. Plus doing it means you're in the right gear at the right RPM ready to go when you come off the brakes.

[midden]

engine braking to my knowledge was the thing to do untill pads and shoes became chaeper. now proper braking technique uses a mixture of engine and brakes, control of vehicle can be lost if taking engine out of drive.  As for engine damage you'd be talking driving high speed  dropping from 5th straight in to 1st or 2nd not just riding in a lower gear than needed and releasing throttle to slow down

[noggythenog]

Who gives a foc if engine breaking increases wear...we'll have crashed the bike before it becomes significant




Original question is about clutch-less changes......apparently not a problem really (if done properly) so how slick are you????.........and changing down without the clutch....i dunno.....what real benefit is there....it's not like it's a chore to use the clutch is it?.




It's one of those things that's just cool to do without really making all that difference on the roads in the real world so if it works for you then crack on.....i couldn't get used to it as i couldn't guarantee id do it nicely every time and hence crunch crunch and was taking extra concentration where it could be better directed towards focusing on the road.




A crack habit is far worse

[bigralphie]

Clutchless changes are smoother helps stops lid bounce 2 up 

[fazersharp]

Never done clutchless changing -------- never thought about it on the bike---- in the car yes as changing gears bores me to sleep, on trhe bike I like the eb and "yank" when changing, dont want smooth.
Engine brake all the time along with a throttle blip to get the exact amount I need

[Hiswitsend]

Clutchless changes are great for when the clutch cable snaps and you want to get home rather than wait on the breakdown truck. True story

[Millietant]

I suppose I'm a bit anal then !  -  I use clutch less changes because, when done properly, they're quicker, slicker, smoother and easier on the engine and clutch. BUT, to do them properly (especially down-changes) takes care, skill and precision in matching RPM's, as well as good hand to foot coordination, that most riders don't have the patience or ability to do.


I take it as a challenge to get this right. The smoother and slicker I can be, to my mind, the better rider I become.