Author Topic: Clutch Noise? (Read 9611 times)

Yamazer-92 · « **on:** 16 March 2014, 10:05:26 pm »

Recently been hearing and feeling a bit of strange rumbling from the clutch on my bike when it is idling. It goes away if I pull in the clutch lever though. It makes the engine sound quite lumpy and can affect the tick over slightly, but as soon as I pull in the lever the engine sounds really smooth so its definitely the clutch. Is this normal or does it mean time for a new clutch? The clutch feels alright when being used, can be a bit weak feeling when pulling away in 1st but changing gear is mostly alright not quite as slick as some bikes ive ridden though and have to concentrate on the changes more.

I also removed the baffle on my new Mivv can today, its the first time ive ever had on aftermarket can on a bike and the difference was pretty huge. Baffle in was a nicer tone than standard but a bit quiet, so I took it out and it is so beefy sounding. Not obscenely loud, but still quite loud. I love the sound but am a bit worried about police and stuff...What is the actual penalty for getting pulled over for it im guessing a small fine? If you carry the baffle and put it in at the roadside would they let you off? Where I live the majority of people who own bikes that have aftermarket cans don't run them with the baffles in, some are far louder than mine is, so I'm assuming its fairly relaxed as long as you're careful. Bike still runs lovely anyway, no change whatsoever and I havent checked the plugs or anything but engine has no flat spots and performs exactly the same so that is a relief.

Dead Eye · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 March 2014, 02:07:08 pm »

Could be worth checking the clutch plates - easy enough job to do

As for the can, if you ever do get pulled over (which is very rare), if you have the baffle on you I can't see it being much of an issue. I'm not sure the police could really do anything about fining you unless they had the proper equipment on them to test the noise at the side of the road? I may be completely wrong about this though

So far I don't know of anyone on the forums that's been pulled over for the noise of their can...

Yamazer-92 · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 March 2014, 10:00:11 pm »

I think it sounds bad enough to warrant replacement just for peace of mind, its annoying me now. I was going to get some stainless brake lines and rebuild my calipers but may just do this instead this month as the brakes are working fine I just want to do that as another peace of mind thing.

Next question then. Do I just need the friction plates which people like EBC who are a name I recognise, seem decent in reviews, are selling on ebay for approx £60. Or do I need the whole plate kit, costing about 2 times as much. This one is on a sale at the moment. The actual metal plates themselves can wear and turn blue can't they? My bike is at 26k miles so probably original clutch.

[size=78%]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-FZS600-S-Fazer-98-03-Surflex-Complete-Clutch-Plate-Kit-/130766087338?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1e724424aa[/size]

unfazed · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 March 2014, 10:20:01 pm »

Common problem on Fazers and many four cylinder engines ( check out the old 750/4 Honda) made worse by out of balance carburettors.

Balance the carbs and set the TPS, before doing anything else.

Dodgy plug leads/caps will also make it sound worse and it always sounds even worse during tick over when cold.

Mine is doing it with the last 50000 miles.

Yamazer-92 · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 March 2014, 10:27:40 pm »

I am fairly positive it is the clutch, I balanced the carbs at the end of last summer and they still feel fine. Bike will sit at 30 in 6th fine, some other foccers have said that is one quick way to test if your carbs are in need of a balance. I also checked and adjusted the tps, although I forgot about that and its very easy to check so I'll do that tomorrow to rule that out. I also trimmed the ht leads and put in new NGK plug caps last summer.

The engine is nice and smooth with the clutch in like I said. Even when warmed up its doing it, there is no real change between warm and cold either unlike when I first start it and it has a bit of a cam chain tick for about the first mile which then goes completely. I think I will just replace it, even if the issue persists that is something I can rule out. What do you think though go for just the EBC plates or pay double for the whole kit?

Dead Eye · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 March 2014, 11:59:48 pm »

Whip out your old plates quickly to check them over - that should answer the question for you

It's not too messy, you can lean the bike on the side stand and the oil won't leak when you remove the clutch cover. This is probably a good time to check the gasket as well - mine was obliterated, but it was on 86k of very mis-treated miles

If you can see the blueing on the metal plates is significant then replace them. The EBC plates should be fine, but in my opinion stay away from the EBC springs if you get the urge :P Just reuse the OEM ones

midden · « **Reply #6 on:** 18 March 2014, 01:27:45 am »

Have you tried adjusting the cable to take up any slack through wear and tear,

as for the baffle if I was a copper who stopped you about the noise and you pulled the baffle out of your pocket and able to replace it at roadside I'd be inclined to mutter 'knob' under my breath and give you a fine on that basis, instead of the more normal 7 or 14 day notice of works order (can't remember actual name of form)

Yamazer-92 · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 March 2014, 07:14:34 pm »

Yeah I have, doesn't affect the noise that it's currently making when the lever is not pulled only the bite point of the clutch. I'll open it up and have a look at the weekend probably.

I meant keep the baffle under the seat, not in my pocket. On that basis, probably a good job you aren't a policeman then.

Yamazer-92 · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 March 2014, 05:44:28 pm »

Got my clutch cover opened up today and took out my friction plates. All very clean in there which I was happy with, no emulsion etc and basket bearing felt very smooth and had no damage.

As for the plates, I am not confident to really say as I have never taken a clutch apart before nor seen what a brand new clutch plate looks like. On first inspection, the actual plates don't seem too bad. There is quite a lot of the friction material on most of them and they aren't flat. The steel plates aren't blued at all for the most part, only one of them had some slight marking. However, strangely there were 2 black friction plates in there. One was right at the front so the first one I removed and one right at the back. These to me felt a lot more worn than the rest of the plates, the larger internal diameter plate where the judder spring sits inside is also a black one and feels more worn than the other brown coloured ones. I checked the haynes manual and apparently thundercat clutches have a black first and last plate, but so do FZS 600 02-03 models which mine isn't. So, is this normal? It says if any are worn, the whole lot need replacing as one whole set and to me these black plates feel worn or at least a fair bit more worn than the others.

One last thing, apologies for the terrible photo but are these the standard clutch springs? They had a lot of yellow on them so not sure what thats about. May just replace them as well as I don't have a vernier caliper to check if they are still within tolerance. They could be what's making it feel a bit "weak" at pull away and slow to retract on some gear changes if im not careful. If anyone can fill me in with any of the above I would be very happy, thank you. Some pics:

His Dudeness · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 March 2014, 08:20:38 pm »

Looks ok to me. If you've got a vernier measure their thicknesses but if the clutch isn't slipping they should be ok

wezdavo · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 March 2014, 08:35:00 pm »

To me, what you are explaining is just clutch rattle..

If the noise goes away when you pull the clutch in, it is very normal for 4 cylinder engines...

Yamazer-92 · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 March 2014, 09:11:06 pm »

Fair enough, now that I have the plates out though I'm looking at these black ones and don't like the look of them as they're definitely more worn. Not sure why, perhaps a previous owner replaced the plates and for some reason has left those ones in from the old clutch? I've seen this on ebay, normally I try and go for OEM but cant find them and they're very expensive on aj sutton. For £25 I would definitely just be up for replacing the plates as a matter of course. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clutch-Plates-Kit-Set-Yamaha-FZS600-Fazer-SP-00-03-/141126129318?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item20dbc5d6a6

I will get some new springs as well, rules out those 2 variables then. If it still rattles a little then I will live with that but its the pull away weakness that is annoying me and the great care I have to take with gear changing using the clutch sometimes. Definitely not the gearbox as on the rare occasion I clutch less change its totally smooth. New gasket I will go OEM though just to be sure. Before I buy those plates, anyone had any experience with them? Or should I go for something else like the EBC or whatever, I dont want any heavy duty ones though as I've heard they make matters I'm describing worse.

His Dudeness · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 March 2014, 10:12:03 pm »

well you seem set on replacing them so fair enough but if you're replacing them to stop a rattle you'll be disappointed

acid drop · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 March 2014, 10:12:14 pm »

Quote from: wezdavo on 23 March 2014, 08:35:00 pm

To me, what you are explaining is just clutch rattle..

If the noise goes away when you pull the clutch in, it is very normal for 4 cylinder engines...

Absolutely correct

unfazed · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 March 2014, 10:42:24 pm »

Quote from: His Dudeness on 23 March 2014, 10:12:03 pm

well you seem set on replacing them so fair enough but if you're replacing them to stop a rattle you'll be disappointed

To true

but to replace them with an inferior set

unfazed · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 March 2014, 11:08:49 pm »

Quote from: acid drop on 23 March 2014, 10:12:14 pm

Quote from: wezdavo on 23 March 2014, 08:35:00 pm

To me, what you are explaining is just clutch rattle..

If the noise goes away when you pull the clutch in, it is very normal for 4 cylinder engines...

Absolutely correct

Exactly what I said also.

The noise is mostly likely from the Thrust bearing which has bedded in and it sounds like you have the classic across the frame 4 with a wet multi plate clutch rumble. Is the thrust plate nut loose??? Everything looks fine and normal in the pictures
How can you tell the black plates are worn without measuring them and at 26K it is unlikely they are worn unless you are constantly slipping the clutch. If it was not slipping put it back together and leave it alone.

Springs are colour coded and look normal

The weak feeling may be one of the following:
A worn pivot hole on the clutch lever (a common problem) I am on my 4th lever, replaced about every 20000 miles
A frayed cable at the lever or sprocket cover sides.
A damaged cable allowing water ingress.
A stiff actuator which just needs regreasing, also a common problem see attached file
Did you remove the sprocket cover and check if all is well in there.

I presume you have a torque wrench to tighten the clutch bolts (8Nm), they are easily over tightened and stripped.
When your replacing the pressure plate make sure it seats home and move it around until it does or you will end up breaking it trying to tighten the bolts.

Yamazer-92 · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 March 2014, 11:49:12 pm »

This is the first 4 cylinder bike I've ever owned and I am quite sensitive to little sounds and rumbles, I was curious to see what the clutch was like anyway so thought might as well crack it open and take a look. If it is "normal" then fair enough, I'll stop talking about the rumble and take it as a bit of the bikes charm.

Like I say, the more annoying thing is the clutch just doesn't feel nice to me personally something that I have made a post about before here: [size=78%]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,8688.msg86584.html#msg86584[/size] Reading that back, I will check the adjustment again at the bottom of the cable but I think that only partially and temporarily fixed the problem.

I agree that the set I put up from ebay is inferior, that was a stupid idea I'm just a bit unsure about what to actually do. I have no vernier caliper to accurately measure anything, all I can say is the 6 brown plates have much more meat on them than the 3 black ones. If that's normal then fair enough like I say this is the first clutch I've ever taken apart.

I'll go through the rest of your points one by one on the bike tomorrow. Lever I'm unsure, seems alright but has been dropped on that side before and brake one gave me some grief before but fixed now. Cable is fine and I oiled it properly less than a year ago. I honestly believe it could be the actuator. Last time I checked it it felt very dry and nasty, I couldn't get it off at all though and think the screws / bolts could be rounded. If you honestly think those plates are fine then I'm happy to take your word for it and put them all back in. My initial reaction was that they looked okay compared to the horror I was expecting to see, but at least now I have a second more informed opinion. Thanks for the help anyway and I will have a check through all that and get back to you.

Yamazer-92 · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 March 2014, 11:52:18 pm »

Oh yeah and I don't know what the thrust plate bolt is?

Dead Eye · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 March 2014, 10:40:13 am »

Doesn't seem like anything is amiss... the yellow on the springs is nothing to worry about and I'm fairly sure all the OEM ones had that (mine did)

If you do replace the springs, in my opinion avoid the EBC Heavy Duty ones. Some people get on ok with them and for others they are just too stiff and don't work with the clutch properly.

unfazed · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 March 2014, 05:07:54 pm »

Quote from: Dead Eye on 24 March 2014, 10:40:13 am

Doesn't seem like anything is amiss... the yellow on the springs is nothing to worry about and I'm fairly sure all the OEM ones had that (mine did)

If you do replace the springs, in my opinion avoid the EBC Heavy Duty ones. Some people get on ok with them and for others they are just too stiff and don't work with the clutch properly.

unfazed · « **Reply #20 on:** 24 March 2014, 05:18:21 pm »

Quote from: Yamazer-92 on 23 March 2014, 11:52:18 pm

Oh yeah and I don't know what the thrust plate bolt is?

It should have read the thrust plate Nut, It is the big nut in the centre of the Clutch in your first picture which holds the Boss, the Basket and thrust bearing in place. It appears fine in your picture as it has the tab washer intact. Has been known to work loose where the old washer was reused and tabs break off, it makes a right rumble before the bike stops.

Yamazer-92 · « **Reply #21 on:** 01 April 2014, 11:51:04 pm »

Well today all of my parts arrived so I went for it this evening, clutch plates went back in with a nice layer of fresh oil and in the correct order. I reused the old ones like you guys advised. Thanks for the heads up about making sure the pressure plate is fully seated, definitely not immediately obvious so that was helpful that I knew to move it around. I bought new springs as they were cheap, 6 OEM ones. They looked pretty much the same length as the ones I replaced so the old ones probably hadn't really stretched much but they were cheap so not too fussed. Torqued up nice and evenly in criss cross to 8nm, no issues there. Gasket was a bit of a pain to scrape off but the new one went on fine and no leaks at all so happy with that

. Before I put the clutch cover on I checked the clutch was engaging from the lever and moving the pressure plate and it was so all good there.

Started the bike and it wasn't on for very long but to my ears the rattle seems to have quietened down a bit, probably just coincidence though or maybe it wasnt warm enough to start its rattle. I put the bike in first and the clutch engaged and I pulled away no problems so I am assuming I did it all right! I changed the oil while I was there, well, attempted it. Got as far as all oil out of bike, old filter off, go to put new oil genuine oil filter on and have a head scratch moment. "This looks funny, it doesnt fit in the filter spanner either??" Got sent the wrong filter on ebay even though its marked on the advert as "FZS 600" ..... Contacted seller tonight hopefully he can send me the right one asap.

Also whacked on my Motad downpipes tonight. Went in easy peasy no issues at all and have to say they actually look pretty awesome on the bike considering I didn't like the look of them at first. Haven't started it yet of course as no oil. Went to put my Mivv can on and the clamp to make the link pipe fit to the downpipe outlet is too big

. New one ordered in correct size for a couple of quid on ebay, hoping to have it all sorted by friday if post are good to me. Want to see what these motads are all about and if my clutch is feeling any better!