A fun ride...

[Phil TK]

Pardon my scepticism. Still, I'm sure that the biker featured in this video clip thinks he's a very good rider too and, no doubt he's been riding through London for ages.

Personally I think the guy is a complete twunt and an accident waiting to happen.

  You're probably right, but apart from slowing the pace down a bit there's nothing the IAM could teach him about London Traffic I'll bet.

[pitternator]

Grahamm
Couple of things...while I am no Keith Code....I have ridden very fast indeed in the past ..even been blackflagged  once for speeding on  a trackday  ...but I do see myself as being one of the lucky ones, being still here today ....many experiment and end in disaster.I put it down to not just having a guardian angel, but an ordered and self critical approach to my own bike training. If I want to develop a skill, I empirically do so, and search out sources of info. A bit diffrent to dodging traffic on mopeds for sure. I started off small and moved through various training schools.I suppose at one point I was " fast", maybe even felt impregnable, I was so " good" ...but it all ended when I had my big crash, a silly smidsy at legal speeds ( 40 mph). That really brought home just how terminal and disastrous for my family , any mistake I made would be at the daft road speeds I had done b4. A road to damascus moment I spose, and it really calmed my desire for speed for its sake alone.
Hence why I preach a bit when I maybe see guys who are what I was like when I was starting out , and why I chuck in my twopenneth  to see if it helps at all.... 
I still like to ride fast , but do so at my bidding , in my environment, and call it a day when I choose to. It swhy I like to ride alone or in very small groups...so I call the shots.
My advice is to try  atrackday, its agreat environment to build up yer speed, and tuition is available  to help you learn braking points, apexes etc. You also will gain so much confidance in machine control and knowledge of what the bike can do. Hopefully this will help on the road, so if you do encounter that moment at the limit where you might have hesitated and gone a cropper, you will know just what both you an dthe bike can do.Its not something best learnt on the road itself  (IMO)... and certainly stuff you wont get taught by the IAM. ! 

[Raymy]

A road to damascus

I always thought that was a national speed limit road

Hope you were equipped with the knobblies.

[Grahamm]

apart from slowing the pace down a bit there's nothing the IAM could teach him about London Traffic I'll bet.

There's another thread on here "Am I liable" asking if the biker is responsible for damage caused when a cyclist comes out from behind a bus unexpectedly.

The twunt in that video wouldn't be responsible for damage, he'd probably be responsible for a KSI.

Knowing *about* the traffic and knowing what's *safe* to do in the traffic are two different things.

[Grahamm]

Its not something best learnt on the road itself  (IMO)... and certainly stuff you wont get taught by the IAM. ! 

So when the IAM group I'm a member of had a trackday at Cadwell Park earlier this year, I was fortunate that I was working that weekend because I wouldn't have learned anything from it? 

[Phil TK]

Knowing *about* the traffic and knowing what's *safe* to do in the traffic are two different things.

  Thanks for pointing that out. I presume these nuggetts of amazing IAM enlightenment are written down somewhere, perhaps carved on stone tablets in a sort of IAM 'batcave' in a secret location (probably in the basement of the Daily Express)
  I don't know why you posted that video, you seem to be trying to tout it as the antics of  a typical London biker so that you can slag us all off. The video is not typical at all, I think we are all agreed it is just a twat who could be riding anywhere. It might even be an IAM observer/instructor/

[Grahamm]

And some people want to tout the IAM as a bunch of over-weight pontificating beardies who clearly don't know anything about *real* riding and couldn't teach a London biker anything etc etc etc. 

[pitternator]

Grahamm
Read my post again...I advocate using track days as a vehicle to learn about how to ride fast , and learn limit points , in relative safety...rather than using the road as ones experiment table !   
 
And yes, the IAM do not  really teach how to ride fast . Their real mantra is safety, not speed.Always within the limit....which dont really prepare you if you do want to use the power of ur machine...

[bigralphie]

Never meet a IAM member I,m not quicker than lol

[ghostbiker]

Ahh you can tell its winter when a simple post can turn in to an all out war

done track day and done iams and learnt stuff from both, hell i learn from other riders, from forums from experiance..... i learn new stuff about riding allmost every ride and i have had a bike since i was 14 and stll have foc loads to learn as im FAR from good.

i think you have 2 main types of riders (with many sub types in the main 2 types) those that seek to learn more in anyway they can and those that think they allready know it all.

the basic tone of the thread once you get past the "iams are gods / iams are rubbish" crap is that most of us are in the i want to seek more knowlage type but are in the blinkered sub cat of but im picky where and who i learn it from :P

[devilsyam]

Hmmm think i mite add summat here as with every thing in life from other you learn either good or bad it's your choice

many many moons ago in the days of proddie racing i learned there are always better riders indeed many of them observed from the gravel trap

one has to decide weather tiz ave it or be at work on monday and not in the infirmary

as to Iam for my part having followed may fair share some have been absolutly frighting(max comes to mind) others like davidjw a pleasure to follow

take from it and learn wot ya want free world lol

[Robbie8666]

i just watched that video... yeah the rider is a plank!!
 
what i can imagine some of the views in their mirrors would have been like i shudder to think!
 
cant tell what speeds they were doing or what kind of bike it was though..
 
funny how we are all asuming it was a bloke!
 
 

[Phil TK]

And some people want to tout the IAM as a bunch of over-weight pontificating beardies who clearly don't know anything about *real* riding and couldn't teach a London biker anything etc etc etc. 

Oi, I never said anything about them being overweight.

[Grahamm]

Read my post again...I advocate using track days as a vehicle to learn about how to ride fast , [...]
And yes, the IAM do not  really teach how to ride fast .

No, because, as you agree, that's what the track is for!

Their real mantra is safety, not speed.Always within the limit....which dont really prepare you if you do want to use the power of ur machine...

What they always say is "You are responsible for your own riding decisions".

The IAM won't tell you to exceed the limit, because that's illegal and they can't advocate people breaking the law. But if you want to "use the power of ur machine", far better to do it knowing about good positioning and road discipline rather than just getting out there and chucking it down the road when it all goes pear-shaped.

[Grahamm]

the basic tone of the thread once you get past the "iams are gods / iams are rubbish" crap is that most of us are in the i want to seek more knowlage type but are in the blinkered sub cat of but im picky where and who i learn it from :P

Well I never said they were "gods", but I agree with the "seek more knowledge" point.

There's nothing wrong with being picky about who you learn from (when I did my DAS I phoned around various places until I found someone who wanted to teach me to ride a motorcycle rather than pass a test) and whilst there may be people out there who think they're better/ faster/ cooler than an advanced rider, I'd take anything they say with a pinch of salt until I see some proof.

But the point is it boils down to two questions:

1) Is getting advanced training a good thing?

2) If you read others slagging off advanced trainers, might that put you off getting advanced training?

If the answer to both of these is "Yes", there's a problem.

[Phil TK]

2) If you read others slagging off advanced trainers, might that put you off getting advanced training?

 No Graham, that's out of context, insert:- 'slagging off the IAM', nobody has slagged off advanced trainers in general on this thread, just the IAM.
 
And that's their problem, not other advanced trainers problem.

[Robbie8666]

1) Is getting advanced training a good thing?

2) If you read others slagging off advanced trainers, might that put you off getting advanced training?

If the answer to both of these is "Yes", there's a problem.


 
OK I am newly back on the road after a 10 year break. I was never a good rider just a commuter (10 miles round trip daily) with the occasional trip into Derbyshire for half a day so am finding my feet and would like to use my bike safer, especially as I intend to commute (64 miles daily) and use it to pop home to Cornwall at weekends 240 miles each way.
 
the question I have do I just ride it for a period of time and get used to enjoying my Fazer 600 or do I go straight in for an advanced riding course?
 
 

[bigralphie]

Well depends ,if you need help with clutch ,gear change brakes etc I would just book a day or 2 with a training school .
Then go out and practice what you have learned and then seek advanced training as you will get more out of it (and won’t feel self conscience in front of other riders)
 

[Grahamm]

2) If you read others slagging off advanced trainers, might that put you off getting advanced training?

 No Graham, that's out of context, insert:- 'slagging off the IAM', nobody has slagged off advanced trainers in general on this thread, just the IAM.

Hmm: "It's the preaching aspect of it that puts me (and many others) off doing it, from RoSPA and the IAM both." - Aegis Bearing Mel.

And that's their problem, not other advanced trainers problem.

With respect, I think the problem is with those slagging them off. If someone doesn't like them or their methods or whatever, fine, that's up to them, but when someone starts posting inaccurate generalisations or thinking that because *they* don't like the IAM based on their personal perceptions (or should that be prejudices?) then the entire organisation should be disbanded, that's just getting ridiculous.

[Grahamm]

the question I have do I just ride it for a period of time and get used to enjoying my Fazer 600 or do I go straight in for an advanced riding course?

After a 10 year break I'd suggest getting some Refresher Training before going for advanced training, you'll probably need to get back into the feel of the bike, basic control, dealing with traffic etc.

Check around your local area for bike training schools and see what they have to offer.

[Robbie8666]

i've been back in the saddle since July so got the hang of bike controls etc. in fact rode it back from croydon to Portsmouth when i bought it & have done bout 2k miles on it so far. alsorts of journeys from the daily commute to basingstoke and a trip from Portsmouth to Redruth so not totally new. maybe i'll wait till warmer weather & see how i get on
 

[Aegis Bearing Mel]

Don't reckon that was really slagging them off, more saying why many are put off by them.
I'll happy slate them for man, many things, but getting people to think about their riding isn't one of them.
Still not convinced that many that go through it do apply it as a tool to analyse their riding though, but that's a can of worms I'm happy to leave unopened.

However, I'd still rather give my local training school a few more sheckles for some advanced training, but that's my choice.
Firm believer in you pays yer money and all that...

[Phil TK]

but when someone starts posting inaccurate generalisations or thinking that because *they* don't like the IAM based on their personal perceptions (or should that be prejudices?) then the entire organisation should be disbanded, that's just getting ridiculous.

  It's not a personal perception or prejudice, it's a view based on why others slag them off. It's the word on the street mate and nothing to do with what I bloody think.
  Disbanding them? well why not, they are not exactly a great success.

[Grahamm]

i've been back in the saddle since July so got the hang of bike controls etc. in fact rode it back from croydon to Portsmouth when i bought it 

Ah, I didn't know you're local to me

Personally I'd recommend visiting the Solent Advanced Motorcyclists group at Sarisbury Green for one of their "SAM Sunday" events (starting again in March). You get a free Assessed Ride and then you can consider signing up for the IAM Skills for Life package.

Of course others on here may have their own opinions about doing this, it's your choice

[Robbie8666]

thanks for that Grahamm I will defo do that, even if just for the assesment.
 
yeah I got digs in Waterlooville during the week!