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Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => Fazer 1000/FZ1 corner => Topic started by: bwizz on 05 September 2014, 04:24:52 pm
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Out on a gentle ride with chick on back today, I had to abort my ride after a serious misfire developed.
I managed to get back home and started to investigate, I quickly narrowed problem to number one cylinder . I changed plug , no different, I hung a spare plug onto number one lead this seems to have a good spark, starting to look serious. anybody got any tips on likely issues. seems a compression test is a next step ,starting to sweat!
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try spraying lots of wd40 or similar around no 1 inlet manifold rubber as it may have cracked and you are drawing air i had similar problem its an easy cheap test --good luck
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First, don't sweat. Compression testing and all that implies are a long way off! :)
By all means check the intake stubs but even heavily cracked ones tend to stay air tight.
I'd start by taking off the plug cap, cutting 1cm off the lead and refit. You could have a poor contact between lead and cap, which you might have inadvertently 'made good' by your plug testing.
Consider also a fuel-related misfire. If the float needle seat O-rings start to leak, you can get a rich misfire on the affected carb.
What's the year and mileage of your steed? Ridden regularly? Any recent servicing or mods we should be aware of?
Mike
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Thanks for imput guys , carb stubbs are sound, bike has done around 33000 . It is ridden infrequently . its an 05 ,around 10000 miles since I did the ivan mod+boots+ ignition advance+ air pump removal. always garaged. seemed a good spark whilst the spare plug was hung on the no1 lead " with engine running". reconnected still missing on no1. Not done any more yet
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I have taken approx 1 cm from no 1 plug lead , also checked the no1 carb diaphram . that is ok . its goana be fiddly to get the float chamber of . is there anything else I should check before trying. do this ,faulty coils act up like this.? "engine clears above 3000 revs
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Have a look at the plug cap itself, on mine I had a low running issue which was fine above 3k, the problem was the pin inside the cap had corroded, I have gone the individual coil route so no more plug leads on my bike.
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Whats the individual coil route ? I did not know this was an option on a gen1. the plug cap looked ok but i'll double check
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Whats the individual coil route ? I did not know this was an option on a gen1. the plug cap looked ok but i'll double check
It is a mod using stick coils off a honda cbr600, some kawasakis and suzukis, may the later FZ1 coils will fit depending on the resistance.
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You might find this link helpful:
http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59207 (http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59207)
The float needle seat O-ring problem requires carb removal to fix. Do all four carbs while you're at it.
http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103599&highlight=found+carb+failure+mode (http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103599&highlight=found+carb+failure+mode)
'Ridden infrequently' always makes me suspect the pilot jets.
You've probably thought this yourself but just in case. Good spark with spare plug but not when plug lead reconnected to the plug in the head ... have you changed those two plugs over?
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Yes Mike I swapped plug and the fault stayed on no1. Gonna get a compression test at a local bike dealer then if thats ok I'll check the carbs. looks possible to get a float bowl of the no 1 cylinder at a pinch ? engine does not smell rich though despite the missfire
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It's not the float bowl access that's the issue, it's the O-ring which seals the float needle seat and you can only work on that with the carbs on the bench.
Besides, if one has failed then the others won't be far behind. I suggest you plan on changing all four O-rings as a precaution, even if the fault turns out to be something different. :)
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I checked supplied links thanks Mike ,Neither really fit my case .I took the bike to a local dealer for a compression test . no1's ok so thats a relief. also got the plug end cap checked for resistance, bike does not smell rich and even ticks over fairly well. I don't get a fuel feeling about this issue,On the short ride to the dealers it felt like maybe there is another cyclinder coming and going. so maybe a dicky coil or associated wiring. A local breaker has a coil so wortha a try
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Getting to the point where i'm stumped. I got a coil from a breaker from a kawasaki but similar.Fitted it, Engine started up nicely and ran cleanly whilst in nuetral . once round the block and its misfiring on more than one . I took out the number one plug that was previously black now its clean. started again cleanly round the block ditto. seams like some sort of ht breakdown .
In the interim I went to the local garage to get some petrol, bike would not re start. call out RAC , he check sparks , nothing dead, Then just as mysteriously restarted
.This has happened twice before so the issue may not be related. but now back home bike starts but still the missfire issue. seems I need to get a Fazer coil, then that is one unknown quantity
out of the equation. any more ideas guys before I book it in somewhere
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Have you checked all the earth connections and the white connector block, left side, under the tank?
Also, give the ignition switch and the Run switch a thorough flushing with WD-40.
Both these are known causes of electrical issues on the Gen 1 and while they might not seem obviously linked to your symptoms, best eliminate them first before buying new coils and so on
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I did not know of a white block under tank being an issue. I repeatedly flicked the kill switch and the side stand . the RAC man wagged everything in sight under seat and behind side pannels
He certainly removed and refitted the cdi unit plug. But It seemed to restart with non of these being at issue. I'll give it a go with WD when the stress level has gone down a bit. Good stuff WD ,used it for years. Thanks for imput Mike.
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Calmer today , I took tank of and pulled apart the white block and another black one. lagged everything in sight with WD "thanks Mike"!. Bike seems to start better. So hopefully cracked the sudden death syndrome. I need to change the coil though, as the first issue was on no 1 cylinder , its better now but still not 100%. What does the white terminal block connect up?
Thanks all, great forum!
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The issue - and cure - with the white terminal connector is covered here:
http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/eskortsdefectiveconnectorreplacement.shtml (http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/eskortsdefectiveconnectorreplacement.shtml)
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OK ta interesting
Had another short ride tonight , started of fine running nicely on all four. came back with with cylinders coming and going, I've not taken a plug out yet, but now there is more than one cylinder playing up. seems a ht issue.
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My dad had the same issue on a ride out. Turned out 1 of the leads had a tear in it. Changed all 4 problems solved. Hills Breakers still have 1 set for the gen1 thou as well.
here. £36.
http://www.hills-bikes.co.uk/yamaha-fzs-fazer-1000-2001-2005-coils-p-49053.html (http://www.hills-bikes.co.uk/yamaha-fzs-fazer-1000-2001-2005-coils-p-49053.html)
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Ta but I've a new coil and coming with leads for 2 cyclinders £20 new .E bay ! If that don't fix it I'm out of ideas.
brian
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my bike did the same yesterday.....out a run and I thought right ok time to open it up a bit.....the first ive had it over the ton mark then a felt it slow then catch again
then when a slowed down to bout 30 40 then open the throttle again it would shudder kinda like going onto 3 cylnders
was down at it earlier and started it up seems fine but theres deffo a flat spot low down any ideas.....sorry to hijack the thread
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When I had my gen1 I had similiar cutting out and misfiring at speed and cut the ht leads back, cleaned all the connectors up, even drained the float bowls to see if there was any muck inside and changed the fuel filter.
I then found the cause by pure luck, I was mounting my camera and the engine was running and I just nudged the ignition key with my hand and the engine cut out. The ignition barrel was that badly worn the key was loose.
I temporarily solved it by by slightly bending the key until I got a second hand ignition unit, which I found a right twat to fit!
It might be worth just checking yours out.
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A really don't think that's the problem with mine I'm going to get plugs first an try that
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Cdi unit maybe if coils and leads fail? Isn't there anyone close by you could borrow?
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It crossed my mind that it might be the cdi unit, but I'll wait till coil comes before I do anymore. A local dealer has a thou so he might be minded to traspose bits over . i've no illusions that a main yamaha dealer would cost me a packet ,
Ignition barrel is ok I think . the key fit is good anyhow.
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A faulty Ignitor would effect 2 or 4 cylinders.
An issue with the coil would effect 2 cylinders,
An arcing plug cap or problems with a carburettor could effect just one cylinder.
Corrosion withing the Plug cap can cause misfiring which can come and go.
Bypass the Ignition Key circuit to rule out the Ignition switch if necessary.
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New coil came today , after fitting ,misfire fault has gone ! Can't be sure on the "Sudden death issue" ,Time will tell ! But i'm quite happy at £20 delivered for a new coil. I'll update after a good long ride
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Sudden death issue could be corrosion in the connector to the pickup coil, located under the tank.
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I rode 30 miles with engine running well, last night , left the bike for a couple of hours and then back to the sudden death syndrome. Finally started after a lot of cranking. I wagged the side stand ,ignition key and kill switch neither of which seemed to make any difference. I only remember seenig two terminal blocks under the tank , both of which I separated and WD 'd. This is weird having two electrical issues at the same time.
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I think the coils are a red herring.
Ignition switch and/or the big white connector under the tank. WD40 isn't much of a contact cleaner, either. I really recommend replacing this connector with better quality individual connectors. It's a known issue and even if it isn't the cause of your present misfire, time spent doing this will pay in the future. :)
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I would think there is defo 2 issues , as I have had this, " not starting issue," months before the misfire came on.
what does the black wiring plug "under the tank" link up , this was the dirtier of two
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I think the coils are a red herring
In which case they should probably be upgraded with electric eels, but cod knows I'm probably talking pollocks :rollin
Sorry :o
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Can't do any more as my sides have split!
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well that's mine ok again.....new plugs fitted :)
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I took tank of again , I have thoroughly cleaned the white block. I also found a bunch of 4 terminal blocks in a large plastic cover . one of these had green pins , cleaned all these and WD'd . Bike starts every time now but , again pick up is not clean! Can't get my head round how last night it ran 30 miles perfectly. Might even treat it to new plugs as the last ones only a month ago were e bay cheepos possibly NJK copies. clutching at straws now. whats an ignitor ? re A faulty Ignitor would effect 2 or 4 cylinders. (Unfazed)
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Bwizz, I must apologise the pick up coil connector is under the right hand side cover, it is the TPS connector which is under the tank.
The pick up coil is linked to the EXUP motor, TPS, Speed Sensor, emergency stop switch and ignitor.
When I had the sudden stop problem I traced it to the dreaded green corrosion in the pick up coil connector.
Ignitor is Yamaha name for the the electronic ignition system and is the box under the seat next to the fuse box with Denso label, also known as ECU, CDI or ECM
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Ok ta I thought you meant .The "what I thought of as the CDI unit" I'll have a geek behind the side panel tomorrow. i think the RAC man checked it though. Uneven running fault seem to be affecting 1+4 both these plugs are showing signs of fouling
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Did you use the plug caps on the replacement coil? A few replacement coils I have bought in the past had corrosion in the caps.
Swap the plugs caps on Cylinders 1 and 4 with the plug caps on cylinders 2 and 3 and see if the fault follows the caps.
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I tried some kawasaki plug caps " from the temporary coil" on 1 and 4 , did not make any difference ! I took of the side panel , lots of terminal blocks there! pulled every one apart and cleaned +WD'd result no difference! Not died since though!
I hung a plug on both no1&4 , massive spark on both. Two thoughs now , either these two plugs break down under load.
Or two cyclinders are flooding intermittently (Mikes suggestion area ), I'm going to try two plugs from my 600 tomorrow , not quite the same heat range , but might be interesting
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I fitted the 2 plugs from the 600, started up fine then within minutes ,I lost no 4, This would seem conclusive that no 4 is flooding constantly and no 1 intermittently. This will have to wait till i'm in a better state of mind to thake the carbs of,
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I fitted the 2 plugs from the 600, started up fine then within minutes ,I lost no 4, This would seem conclusive that no 4 is flooding constantly and no 1 intermittently. This will have to wait till i'm in a better state of mind to take the carbs of,
Push a clear plastic pipe onto the drain hole and tape on to the side of the carb. Loosen the drain bolt and and let it fill the pipe check the level of the fuel in the line in relation to the float bowl. Now start the engine and see if the height changes when the engine is running and being revved. See picture attached.
If levels are wrong it is either dirt or dodgy float valve seals.
If it is seals change all 4.
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Ta i'll give that a go, Very difficult to get at no4 .
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Just an update on the misfire. Just started up the bike after not touching it for two weeks. Started perfectly I have done a few short test rides since and still ok . Only thing I did after the last investigation session was to re'route the outer plugs leads slightly. Time will tell " if it stays ok"
Hope so as I was not looking forward to taking the carbs of.