Bloody cyclists always get in the way!

[simonm]

To me what they call countersteering on bikes these days, is counter weighing, steering the bike with your waist and hips, the bars aren't pushed left or right

Presuming you aren't just trolling, next time you're out, find a long straight bit of road (motorway, dual carriageway etc) where there isn't much traffic about and with as little as possible pressure from your hands on the bars, try the following:

1) Try steering the bike with your waist and hips.

2) Gently push on the right bar and see which way the bike goes, then try with the left.

See what happens.

Indeed. The TotW II DVD demonstrates this admirably for those that need to see the concept in action. (The DVD is £6.05 on amazon at the mo.)

I don't think that he's getting the message about watching twist of the wrist.

Here is a link for him



Razgruff, please watch the link.  It will enlighten you.

[Razgruff]

Go read the Tony Foales explanation and you may see what I'm trying to say very badly 

http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/Balance/BALANCE.htm


Equilibrium is achieved when the angle of lean is such as to balance the two opposing moments, the one due to centrifugal force acting outward, and the other to gravitational force acting downward (both acting through the C.of G.). The actual angle, which depends on the radius of the turn and the speed of the machine, is that at which the resultant of the two forces passes through a line joining the front and rear tyre contact patches. This is the steady-state roll axis. But how do we actually initiate the turn - do we lean or do we steer first? Let's see what happens with each method. If we turn the handle-bar in the direction in which we want to go, both centrifugal force and the front wheel precession would cause the bike to topple outward, and that leads to gravel rash. But if we momentarily try to turn the bar quickly in the opposite direction, (sometimes known as counter steering) then these two forces will combine to bank the machine to the correct side. Gravity will then augment the banking effect and this, in turn, will give rise to gyroscopic forces helping to steer the front wheel into the curve, whereupon the processes for maintaining balance as described above take over and keep the bike on our chosen path. This is all very well, I hear you say, but if this is the way to corner, how come we can steer a bike no-hands. Well, it certainly is possible to do so, but only with a lot more difficulty. Precise control and tight turns are difficult to accomplish without handle-bar manipulation. Just try it! Let's consider the no-hands situation. As we saw earlier, simply banking the bike steers the front wheel in the correct direction automatically, through precession. But how do we make the bike lean in the first place, what do we have to push against? There is nothing solid to push against and so the only way to apply bank (without the facility of steering), is to push against the machine with the inertia of our own body. This means in practice, that in order to lean the bike to the right, we must initially move our body to the left. So now we have two possible methods of initiating a turn, and it is interesting to note that in both of them (banking and reverse handle-bar torque) our physical effort is in the opposite sense to that which might be thought natural, but when learning we adapt quickly and the required action becomes subconsciously automatic. It is these reverse actions that require us to learn to ride in the first place, when learning most of us wobble about out of control until our brain latches on to the fact that counter-steering and counter-leaning is the way to do it. Once the brain has switched into reverse gear, it becomes instinctive and is usually with us for life, and we could return to riding after a long layoff with no need to relearn the art of balancing or steering. So which of these two possible methods of initiating a turn do we use in practice? We probably subconsciously combine both methods, and the pressure on the inner handgrip is partly forward (counter-steering) and partly downward (banking). Remember though, that the actual counter-steering movement is very small, since gyroscopic precession depends for its strength on the speed of movement not on the amount of movement. If you still don't believe that steering to the opposite side works, then next time you are out riding, try jerking the bars quickly to one side, and see what happens. Leave yourself plenty of road if your reactions are a bit on the slow side. Do this at about 40 mph., and don't blame me if you fall off. The relative proportions with which we combine the two methods depend partly on riding style but also on speed and machine characteristics. For example, a heavy machine with light wheels at low speeds demands a different technique from that applicable to a light weight machine with heavy wheels at high speeds, and hence the two machines will have a different feel. But humans adapt quickly and the correct technique soon becomes second nature. It may seem strange that in the above discussion no mention has been made of such important parameters as, steering geometry, wheel and tyre size, wheelbase, frame stiffness and so on. This is simply because, balance and the ability to start and maintain a turn can be achieved within a wide range of these parameters. That is not to say that these factors are unimportant. We shall now look a little more closely at one of the more important parameters that come under the heading of steering geometry, i.e. TRAIL. Consider first fig.4, which shows the basics of steering geometry.

[Punkstig]

Returning to the video in this post-
It appears that he either scrapes his toe or footpeg part way round, he obviously has little experience of this happening so instant reaction is to pick the bike up, this puts him into the trajectory of the cyclists, unfortunately what's probably going through his head is
Shit shit shit I'm heading right for them
Shit shit shit I can't brake cause I'll end up off the road and heading straight up that steep bank
Shit shit shit I can't corner any further to avoid them cause in my mind I'm at the limit and I'll be scraping the pegs again and crash
Shit shit shit not enough time to think of other options
Fuck it lets have em all!


Lack of experience,
That's my two pence anywho!