Great British Roads that are focced up.are sports compound tyres now applicable?

[noggythenog]

I had Avon Distanzia on my CCM R30 awesome tyre but the supermoto sizes are a much softer compound than the ones for big trailies
I tend to go by BHP output
Sport touring on bikes over 100 ish
Sticky stuff on lower 

That's 2 shouts so far for these Avon Distanzia tyres.......i dont think they do them for the FZ1 and like you say it is most likely the power and speed would tear them up but from a theoretical stand point i like the looks of them.

[noggythenog]

There are tyres that are designed for the road but can be used on very minor off road as I've seen quite a few supermotos with them, an example is Avon Distanza. A lot of supermoto riders seem to just put sport touring or semi / full on-slicks on though so I would suggest what we have on is best for a sport tourer riding on tarmac. Not quite sure what you're actually asking though, that was a lot to take in and there are a few different actual questions haha. If you're on about solely dry riding in summer for pleasure and maximum cornering grip then yes a sportier tyre like a metzeler M5 sportec etc will be a better choice of course.


I think if you are mid bend and see a pothole / debris the tyres will not really make much of a difference as long as they're good quality it will more likely be the suspension that will save you and your riding ability to not tense up if you do hit it and try to look past it to avoid it. If you're talking about riding the roads now which I don't think you are because you asked about summer, I would say now isn't really the time to be going balls to the wind anyway because I know where I live the roads are dreadful and wet leaves, wet manholes and potholes are all over the place not to mention the distracted drivers commuting home.


On another note, this could be a bit of a risqué comment and not my place but it's meant in good faith. You sound as though you enjoy cornering the most but to me regarding a lot of your posts I don't think you're enjoying your FZ1 as much as you expected and are trying to justify to yourself the performance it should have by trying to go faster and faster and faster. Thing is, I can only see it ending badly which nobody would want to happen. You often spoke well of your Fazer 600 and loved how it handled. I think if you actually timed yourself doing your favourite roads on both bikes, you are actually smashing your old pace to pieces on the FZ1 but because it is such a beast, you are feeling pressured to as if you MUST beat the old FZS and this is my point. You aren't riding just for the fun of it perhaps and its now becoming more about riding well with good pace which sometimes the road conditions wont allow. In my opinion, smaller less powerful and lighter bikes are more involving as the actual perception of speed, fun and pace in the bends is greater. This is off on a tangent to your OP I know, but just my opinion. I think if you got an MT-07 or something smaller that can handle and feels like you are actually more involved in riding it to its potential without going stupidly fast and making greater chance of serious accident you wouldn't be thinking about stuff like this quite as much perhaps. There is an interesting article in Bike magazine 500th anniversary edition I just bought regarding this.

Some fair comments here yamazer......and taken on the chin......i think we have simillar riding styles us 2 and i see the sense in your posts....ill have to have a look at bike magazine


I was trying not to have a personal thing about me as im interested in the whole follow the pack tyres mentality but as youve raised something that can broadly given example:-


On the thou it is definately a bit more difficult to adjust a line mid bend.......the extra weight, the wider rear tyre plus the extra entry speeds no doubt  means that when you pick a line going hard you are usually pretty much stuck on that line...........it is more tricky to pick the bike up or shimmy around a big rut in the road when you see one.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

michellin maccadam

They were sort of OK in their day. 

But the PR3's I'm using now.  Wow.  Perhaps going back to Maccadam's there was still a point in sports tyres for road use, but not any more.

I keep telling friends who are still fitting sports tyres, to try some PR3's or similar. 

[Dead Eye]

I've pretty much exclusively used BT023's on my Fazers and I get on with them fine. In wet weather I'm usually much more cautious and need to get past the mental barrier of being able to lean the bike well before the tyres give me any signs of stress :P

Having said that, on a few occasions it has been raining pretty heavy and I haven't been holding back and the tyres have performed very well

[noggythenog]

Right then...just a few points of note from everyones feedback:-


For riding in pot hole Britain in the dry:-


- softer suspension to soak up bumps and ruts......this ive already done on my thou and it does help


- lower tyre pressures work well over uneven ground.....could this mean that universal 36psi front and 42psi rear perhaps isnt really taking into account the state of the roads......to experiment i might try a small adjustment.....maybe 34psi front and 40 rear and see what difference it makes on rough ground.


- a narrower wheel is easier to flick....easier to dodge rough bits.......stevie has gone with a narrower width rear on his R1'for quicker turn in.....what tyre width did you go with again stevie?


- on dry roads then tread is pretty much useless......tread is only there for the rain......but everyone will hit unexpected rain at some point so a little bit of tread can be useful for those situations.




I wonder then so if youve gotta have some tread on a tyre for those just incase moments.......but if you arent really riding in that much rain then what tread pattern is best......id be inclined to say that a horizontal tread is best....because as the wheel spins quickly on the road and on its contact patch during a corner then it is a whir of  tread/slick/tread/slick/tread/slick/tread/slick.....but with a greater proportion of slick bit and therefore performing best on the dry road .


A series of vertical treads i dont think are as good for the dry because you can end up over in a corner and almost riding the tread as almost all of the contact patch........or if you're over a bit more then end up riding almost completely on the non tread part.....i can see this then making for an unpredictable ride in the corners depending on where on the tyre you are riding.


So most manufacturers are then going mid way between vertical and horizontal tread as a compromise.


So in the 2 pics you can see that at full pelt and on the edge of the pilot road 3 tyre that you'll be hitting much more tread as it spins round than if you are at the same limit on the rosso corsa.


But actually looking at the Distanzia tyre......it has much more of a uniform pattern all over itself........i reckon then that it gives for far more uniform handling than either the corsa or the road 3......maybe not quite as good performance.....but much more predictability and the same feel regardless of corner intensity.

[alan sherman]

Tread is designed to squeegy the water out to the side of the tyre through the channels.  That is why they are all angled towards the sides.

Carcass construction would be interesting.  A more compliant carcass would give a 'softer' ride, but be squirrelly in corners, especially if the pressure were lower, as the tyre flexes.

I'd need a lot of convincing to try Avons again after a horrible descent of the Galibier many years back!

[JoeRock]

I don't go with PR2s cos it's what everyone else goes for. I have used Metzelers, Contis and Bridgestones too. And that's just on the Fazers I've had. I keep replacing the Michelins with the same because I have genuinely found them to be an excellent tyre. Wet weather grip is hardly less than dry, and dry is superb. I find them predictable, they don't give me any scary "moments" and they wear reasonably well. With all the tyre discussions there have been on this and other forums, I have not changed due to someone else's recommendation. If I find a tyre that I like, I'll stay with it until I can't get them anymore.

We all really need two bikes don't we, keep running one on our favourite tyres and experiment with new tyres on the other, then when we find a new tyre we like more than our old tyre that one becomes the new favourite. FWIW - try the Michelin 3s if you like the twos, they're brilliant. I'm rather looking forward to seeing how the 4s compare to the 3s myself next tyre change 

[JoeRock]

And Noggy - not sure how you've found your riding style changing from the 600 to your 1000, but from what I've found from getting on the bigger bikes is that instead of leaving the bike leant over for ages round the corners as you can on a 600, its more a case of hammer up to the bend, brake, turn in, minimise the time spent leant over, get the bastards up on the fat part of the tyre and hammer it out. I'm definitely quicker on my 1000s than I have been on the 600s, with the possible exception of any very long, sweeping corner where I find I'm generally a bit quicker on a 600, but that's just because I know I can open the throttle a long way whilst leant over and it won't do anything, whereas on the 1000 I'm always more cautious about sliding it if I try the same.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

I'm rather looking forward to seeing how the 4s compare to the 3s myself next tyre change 

Me too dude.  Tyres to day are amazing.  PR3's are do it all tyres, yup bring on the PR4's.

[Hedgetrimmer]

We all really need two bikes don't we, keep running one on our favourite tyres and experiment with new tyres on the other, then when we find a new tyre we like more than our old tyre that one becomes the new favourite. FWIW - try the Michelin 3s if you like the twos, they're brilliant. I'm rather looking forward to seeing how the 4s compare to the 3s myself next tyre change 

Well, it has been recommended to me to skip the 3s and go straight to the 4s when I can no longer get 2s. That's one piece of advice I might well heed. I've heard mixed reviews on the 3s - move about a bit too much in certain conditions seems to be the main gripe. I haven't (so far) heard anyone knock the 4s though.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

I like the 2's Nick, but I found the 3's even better.

As for moving around.  Well I found on pushing along a bit the rear could occasionally step out a little with the 2's.  Maybe dropping the pressure from my usual 40-42psi would have sorted that. 

Never had the 3's step out at all.  If I try to abuse them they just keep sticking.  Plus I feel they are even more planted in the wet.

Anyway I'm just over half way through a 3.  Then a half worn 2 is going back on that I have.  By the time that's done the front should be shagged and aye I'll probably go for the 4's unless the 5's are oot!

Any doubters as to how good sports touring tyres like PR3's are should read this;

http://www.visordown.com/product-features/michelin-pilot-road-3-1800-mile-tyre-review/18694.html

[Hedgetrimmer]

Ah, but also, £££££££££££££! Although I wouldn't pay less if it meant crap tyres. But the 2s aren't crap.

[noggythenog]

Well ill be trying out those Maxxis Diamonds soon enough, a promise is a promise and after having the PR3 over the last few thousand miles then it sounds like they'll have allot to live up to.


I've since been reading MCN and Bike and low and behold lots of stories about tyres.......call it boring if you will but id much ratner talk about tyres than say helmets.....a helmet might save you once but a tyre saves you every journey.


And apparently the PR3 have some special coating on them that makes them unique in the wet...first id heard of that.


All i can say is that yes they are superb in the wet....they really opened my eyes to wet weather riding......even now with a bald, squared off middle they are still good in the wet.........i had also just got a set for the 600 but i didnt do many miles on those ones.........my main reason for buying them on the 600 was the reported longevity and im sure they last a long time on the lower powered bike........but not so on the thou...it is too powerful so i dont see the justification for the extra price with regards how many miles ill get.


So ill go a little cheaper with the view of getting the 1 season only.

[MEM62]

I am not so sure they ever were.  A lot of riders have had full on sports tyres fitted in the mistaken belief that they give more grip.  On the road for even brisk riders this rarely proves to be the case.  Tyres need to be at the correct temperature to offer full grip and a sports tyre both takes longer to heat up and looses heat quicker and therefore you never get the best out of it.  it most cases, for road, work, a sports-touring tyre is the best choice.  You get better grip and better mileage.  Most sports tyres will give poorer grip in most road riding situations and will not last long - but they will give you bragging rights down the pub and perhaps some hero-worship from those that do no know better         

[bigralphie]

that's true for track tyres but not for road basis sport tyres 
sticky tyres  do give more confidence in the dry but if you do the miles it just gets too expensive

[stevierst]

I kind of agree with mem62. Had various sports tyres on my play bikes when I've bought them, and changed to s/t tyres as soon as they've worn out.

Can't say that full on sports tyres helped in my corner speed or lean angle, but they have thrown doubt on my grip when not properly warm. In fact they're horrid when cold!
I can 'edge out' s/t tyres with full confidence, accelerate/brake without incident, and still get 3 times the mileage out of them. And they don't need too much warming up, more importantly they work in the wet!!!

It's more a marketing ploy saying sports tyres give more grip. Maybe on a track with a racer at the helm, but not for us mere mortals on the road.

But as per everything, each to their own.