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+--- Thread: Rider sag (/showthread.php?tid=83783)
Rider sag - maryhinge - 27-05-25
Hi folks,i have a question for you, what are you getting on rear shock when setting rear rider sag?I have had a total refurb of my oem shock and was expecting it to be well within parameters.I got 525 mm with rear wheel off the floor for the static sag the sat on bike whilst holding wall for support whilst my friend pressed down on rear and measured the lifted rear and measured .both measurements added and the halved gave 472.5mm,take this from 525mm static which equals 52.5 mm!This was on max preload as well.Im told range should be between 35-45mm so im a bit out.I weigh 14st 3lb with out gear and say 15st with gear so well under what shock is capable of.Am I missing something?Thanks.
RE: Rider sag - Gnasher - 27-05-25
Either you've measured something wrong or the shock is knackered or badly rebuilt. OE shocks are crap to start with and aren't really worth rebuilding. Recheck your measurements and/or take it back to whomever rebuilt the shock.
RE: Rider sag - Gaz66 - 27-05-25
(27-05-25, 05:18 PM)maryhinge Wrote: Hi folks,i have a question for you, what are you getting on rear shock when setting rear rider sag?I have had a total refurb of my oem shock and was expecting it to be well within parameters.I got 525 mm with rear wheel off the floor for the static sag the sat on bike whilst holding wall for support whilst my friend pressed down on rear and measured the lifted rear and measured .both measurements added and the halved gave 472.5mm,take this from 525mm static which equals 52.5 mm!This was on max preload as well.Im told range should be between 35-45mm so im a bit out.I weigh 14st 3lb with out gear and say 15st with gear so well under what shock is capable of.Am I missing something?Thanks......................................................
Hi Newbie.
Not many Fazers still running on OEM shock, paying to refurb one is wasted money bro.
You clearly need a much heavier spring if you plan to use the OEM shock, probly a 160N/mm at least for your weight.
Eg) I'm running a 195N/mm spring on my VFR800, to get adequate sag with me aboard, it's all about the linkage ratio & swingarm length.
What you've discovered is a well known fact that this OEM shock is well under sprung for anyone heavier than 11st in full gear.
Forget what you weigh, it's all about what you weigh kitted up & ready to ride.
Recommended shock setup specs in manuals is mostly wrong.
Bike sag is mostly irrelevant, most shocks have top out springs, so bouncing/measuring, lifting/measuring is pointless, this is a process to determine stiction within the shock.
Just focus on measuring from 2 fixed points, 1 on the swingarm & 1 on bike, (write it down).
Remove all damping adjustments.
Set spring preload to approx 3/4 of what's available.
Get fully kitted up & sit on bike in a close to your normal riding position as poss, balance on tip toes so all your weight is on the bike, get an assistant to measure the same 2 points (write it down).
Ideally you want to see no more than 30mm difference, this is to allow the wheel to drop into road deviations without smashing into the top out spring.
If you see just over 30mm but less than 40mm, max preload & repeat, if you're still seeing 30mm or more, you defo need a heavier spring, don't waste any time playing around with the shock, it's pointless until you fit a much heavier spring.
What you want is no more than 30mm sag in full gear with preload at 1/2 - 3/4 of what's available.
Then you'll need the rebound shim stack stiffening to control the heavier spring or it'll just blow thru the damping & potentially spit you off in a bumpy corner.
On FZS1000's you'll get what can feel like excess play in the shock linkage setup when bike's on centre stand & you pick up the swingarm via the rear wheel, this is normal even on new bearings you'll always feel some up & down play, often gets failed on Mot's, which is lack of experience on the testers part, mention it next time you get an Mot, most testers aren't bike techs & just don't know what is normal on some bikes.
If you suspect vertical play is excessive, get an assistant to work the rear wheel up & down, while you check for visible play in linkage assembly, ideally pull all shock linkages apart, pop out all dust seals, wash out all old grease & inspect needle bearing for damage or corrosion, replace any suspect bearing, check inner bearing bushings in bearings for excess play, repack all needle bearings with high load grease, don't use high temp bearing grease, it's the wrong grease.
https://www.lubricantsupplies.co.uk/products/41768070_Mobil-153552-Mobilgrease-XHP-222-Lithium-Complex-Grease-390g
You'd be better off throwing money into a better spec shock.
Plenty to go at, but if on a budget you can use R6 or S1000RR
Both will work if you source the right length shock.
Most FZS1000's these days are running on an R6 shock with different length dog bones.
If you want your bike to ride & handle better, R6 shock is the way to go imho & many other members will echo this.
This is what the bike ought to have had from factory, but FZS1000 came out yrs before this R6 shock became available, there used to be plenty about brand new & fairly cheap R6 shocks from new bikes stripped for racing etc.
WTF Yamaha were thinking when they fitted this under sprung/damped lolloping bouncy under steering lump of a shock is beyond me.
If you decide to go the R6 shock route, I think all info is listed somewhere in "FAQ" section, sites' not easy to find specific things, search function is pretty crap.
Or if need be I can measure stuff from my bike, it's yrs since I did this shock & dog bone mod, so memory's a bit foggy on exact measurements.
Pm me if you need any measurements etc.
RE: Rider sag - maryhinge - 28-05-25
Brilliant!Thanks for the replies guys.
RE: Rider sag - robbo - 29-05-25
(28-05-25, 05:25 PM)maryhinge Wrote: Brilliant!Thanks for the replies guys.
I’d be surprised if your riding gear only weighs 11lbs. My 2 piece RST leather suit, boots, helmet and gloves come to exactly 2 stone. You need to know your riding weight to give yourself or whoever sets the suspension up for you, a chance of getting it right for you. Jump on them scales, it’s only a number, but a necessary one
RE: Rider sag - maryhinge - 29-05-25
Thanks rob, off work this weekend so no more guessing, going to measure as Gaz suggested as you say with full gear on then go from there, will keep you all posted as im interested to see how good or bad this rebuild OEM really is!!
RE: Rider sag - maryhinge - 31-05-25
Morning gents, bit of feed back for you,Bike standing on floor with Mrs holding it central whilst I measure,487mm that is on preload 6 with all damping off.After many preload up and down to double check the upshot was, max preload number 11 I think it is gave a measurement of 452mm which equates to 35mm sag!Thats me fully kitted at 15st 10.5 lbs!Any thoughts appreciated, cheers
RE: Rider sag - unfazed - 31-05-25
(31-05-25, 11:06 AM)maryhinge Wrote: Morning gents, bit of feed back for you,Bike standing on floor with Mrs holding it central whilst I measure,487mm that is on preload 6 with all damping off.After many preload up and down to double check the upshot was, max preload number 11 I think it is gave a measurement of 452mm which equates to 35mm sag!Thats me fully kitted at 15st 10.5 lbs!Any thoughts appreciated, cheersChecking the static sag on the forks:
Put a cable tie around the fork
With the bike on the centre stand take all the weight off the forks and push the cable tie down to the dust seal.
Take the bike of the centre stand put it on the side stand and now sit on it.
Take the weight off the side stand and put your full weight on the bike.
Do not bounce the forks.
Put the bike back on the centre stand and take all the weight of the forks.
Take your measuement from the top of the dust seal to the bottom of the cable tie
That is you Fork static sag
The following are recommended setting for a bike on standard forks and oil
Front: raise the forks 10mm through yokes.
Compression: five turns back from max.
Rebound: six turns back from max.
Preload: maximum.
Static sag: 24mm.
Checking the rear shock static sag:
Rear static sag is measured from the top of the Rear axle to a point on the frame, fairing or grab rail (mark it with a piece of tape) directly above the axle
Put the bike on the centre stand and measure the distance as outlined
Take the bike off the stand and sit on it with full weight, do not bounce the rear
Measure the distance from the top of the rear axle to the point marked while sitting on it.
The following are recommended setting for a bike with standard rear shock:
Rear: compression three turns back from max.
Rebound: maximum.
Preload: 10mm of static sag
Use the setting as a base and work from there.
As mentioned previously the standard front is too soft as standard even with full preload and under damped as oil is only 5W and is best to upgrade to 7.5w and work from there, going to 10w can limit you compression setting and make it difficult find a good setting.
For standard road use progressive springs are usually best, but some prefer linear springs
The rear benifits greatly from an R6 or S1000RR shock upgrade
I ride two up a lot and have Wilber progressive fork springs with 7.5w synthetic oil and S1000Rr rear shock with a 10mm aluminium ring under the spring to allow greater adjustments of the preload. Never found any need to go the R1 fork route as I found sufficient adjustment on my setup to suit me.
RE: Rider sag - maryhinge - 01-06-25
Thanks for the advice.Im looking to get the bike comfortable as much as anything to be honest.I think its going to be a choice of spending the money or trying something else a bit more "tour"style I suppose you could call it!lol.
RE: Rider sag - unfazed - 01-06-25
An option for you is Hagon, great to deal with. They even have a contact phone number that you can ring them and speak to a real person or call to the place if you are in Essex
They are reasonably priced also
https://hagon-shocks.co.uk/product-category/yamaha/601-1000-ccm-yamaha/shocks-601-1000-ccm-yamaha/fzs1000-fazer-jyarn/2001-2005-fzs1000-fazer-jyarn/
https://hagon-shocks.co.uk/product-category/yamaha/601-1000-ccm-yamaha/forksprings-601-1000-ccm-yamaha/fzs-1000-fazer-01/2001-2005-fzs-1000-fazer-01/
RE: Rider sag - maryhinge - 01-06-25
Many thanks unfazed
Hey Gaz66,does the r6 shock have to be drilled out to fit the fazer thou?
RE: Rider sag - Gaz66 - 03-06-25
(01-06-25, 08:38 PM)maryhinge Wrote: Many thanks unfazed
Hey Gaz66,does the r6 shock have to be drilled out to fit the fazer thou?
3 options that I'm aware of to date that are known to work:
Yrs ago these were plentiful new/cheap on eBay, R6 was a much sort after track/race bike.
1) From memory (2017) R6 shock with ramped preload ring, 2x1mm stainless washers & drill top bush 130mm x2 dog bones.
Fazers top bolt won't fit R6 bush, bush needs drilling to suit, new bit & drill slowly using lots of water, cook it, you'll spin the centre then you're up shit creak, there will be a bush that'll fit, but not from Yamaha, use a pillar type drill if poss, drill half way from both sides to keep drill centered, add a 1mm thick stainless washer either side of R6 bush to pack it out to in frame (swear box required) some glue washers to shock bush, I used battery drill & no glue, I like a challenge.
Bottom end needs no mods, just dog bone length changes to get ride height back, 130mm centres if memory serves?
Don't tighten top bolt up fully until bike's sat on it's tyres, bottom end's on bearings so u can tighten all these regardless.
Using thicker OEM bolt is a wise move, Fazer's way heavier than an R6, plus Fazer will potentially have a heftier rider/pillion combo.
I pre-bought a selection of used K-tech springs to play around with if required.
I'm 17st in full gear, OEM R6 spring is fine, preload set to 2 from max.
This R6 shock with ramped pre-load adjuster, you'll need to file off a few mill from the hump on top casting, it catches the FZS1000 frame rail above it, top bush rubber is rock hard, all bushes need room to flex, 5mm is plenty.
Be aware, OEM top shock bolt will be tight, pre-soak with penetrating fluid days before, bolt head's self locking in frame, 6 sided socket on a wobble drive works best, nut is a bit offset, it's doable with a U/J but u risk slipping & scratching frame, plenty of masking tape if you value your frames paint.
By all means do your own research 1st, all the above is from my now 60yr old memory, I never wrote it down, which looking back, I should have.
2) R6 shock with threaded preload rings, I believe these are 2018/2019 shocks?
These came available after I did mine, personally I'd choose this shock over the ramped version, I believe all dimensions are the same, spring too, never had one to confirm measurements so I don't know if it'll need filing like the earlier R6 shock? do your own research 1st.
3) Certain S1000RR shocks will fit apparently, spring will be no use unless you weigh 10st, some fit step down bushes to use BMW top bolt, I believe this is done on the R6 too, due to Fazers weight, personally I'd rather use OEM heavier bolt & drill the bush.
Be mindful that using any shock designed for a lighter bike will very likely require rebound shim stack sorting to control a heavier load & spring, approx £100 from a suspension specialist for dyno/strip/mod shim stack/rebuild/top up oil/regas/dyno etc.
RE: Rider sag - maryhinge - 03-06-25
Many thanks Gaz.Would this also apply to R6 shock tho as well, the heavier spring, shim stack etc as on the s1000rr, looking at an r6 2010 they only weigh 189kg wet compared to 231kg of the fazer,quite a weight difference.
RE: Rider sag - maryhinge - 03-06-25
Just for info for anyone thats interested, done some research,2010 rear shock 290mm so new dog bones needed, just checked out an r6 2019 rear shock and unless im wrong its 306mm the same as the fazer,this is eye to eye,Does anyone know different??Has anyone fitted a 2019?.
RE: Rider sag - unfazed - 03-06-25
Just to correct the what Gaz66 said about the S1000rr shock spring rate
The spring rate of the 2010 S1000RR shock is 8.5 Kg/mm and 10mm longer than FZS1000 shock
The spring rate of the 2012 S1000RR shock is 8.4 Kg/mm and 5 mm longer than FZS1000 shock. This is the best shock to go for
This is 1 more Kg/mm spring than the 2001-2005 FZS1000 Shock which is only 7.5 Kg/mm
It is more than capable of taking 100Kg rider and I have used it two up with luggage with a combined weight of 160Kg without issues.
However as I have stated previously it is best to use a 10mm spring shim to allow more adjustment of the spring preload as it is easy to go to the end of adjustment without it