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+--- Thread: Centre stand return isn't (/showthread.php?tid=81562)
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Centre stand return isn't - Kenny Dave - 03-04-20
So I've had my centre stand, cleaning it up as well as I can, and put a new coat of hammerite on the thing of course.
It moves ok, but it doesn't return fully. The seats are a bit naffed, but the main problem I think is how little force there is on the spring when it's up. Hence I'd like to replace the spring. Ideally a repair kit, something like this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/99-9953-pre1980-TRIUMPH-T140-BONNEVILLE-CENTRE-STAND-SPRING-BOLT-FIXING-KIT/254335913656?epid=1723346190&hash=item3b379a0eb8:g:zrMAAOSwgyxWVwgn
But I can't find one for the fazer. Any suggestions? Or spring dimensions?
I have the nuts tight, 30 Nm on them. Is this necessary, or is it safe to have them loser with the lock nuts and some thread lock on there? Maybe the issue.
Thanks if you can guide.
Re: Centre stand return isn't - darrsi - 03-04-20
Just one thing to bear in mind with the centre stand, if they become weak or damaged in any way through rust, wear and tear, etc, they can bend out of shape causing them not to function correctly. Normally caused by repeatedly twisting the stand as you pull the bike up onto it.
I'd be very surprised if it is the TWO springs that are faulty (one inside the main one too).
My stand was like this but i couldn't really see what the issue was until i removed it from the bike, then it was glaringly obvious that it was twisted and offset.
I'm not saying this definitely is the case with yours, but it may be worth removing again to have a check, because chances are you wouldn't have noticed a problem if you weren't looking for one.
https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/4162127/fzs600-fazer-5dm4-1999-070-b/stand-footrest
Re: Centre stand return isn't - Gnasher - 03-04-20
(03-04-20, 06:03 AM)darrsi link Wrote: Just one thing to bear in mind with the centre stand, if they become weak or damaged in any way through rust, wear and tear, etc, they can bend out of shape causing them not to function correctly. Normally caused by repeatedly twisting the stand as you pull the bike up onto it.
I'd be very surprised if it is the TWO springs that are faulty (one inside the main one too).
My stand was like this but i couldn't really see what the issue was until i removed it from the bike, then it was glaringly obvious that it was twisted and offset.
I'm not saying this definitely is the case with yours, but it may be worth removing again to have a check, because chances are you wouldn't have noticed a problem if you weren't looking for one.
https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/4162127/fzs600-fazer-5dm4-1999-070-b/stand-footrest
:agree
As mentioned this is by far the biggest reason stands don't return fully, they can also flap a little. Check the springs while in the up position while the bikes on the side stand, you'll be able to see very easily if any one is broken, even with one broken the stand normally returns fully just very easy to move. If they're not broken and the stand is just hanging either the stand frame is twisted or spring anchor point/s are bent or both.
Re: Centre stand return isn't - Kenny Dave - 04-04-20
It moves ok, not twisted. I can move it with my little finger. The external spring isn't snapped, although rusty as hell. The inner one I can't really see because of the rubber sheath inbetween. So that could be the problem.
It has improved a bit with fiddling. If it's within maybe 3 inches of the up position, it goes. Taking it off the centre leaves it in a sort of dead spot below this though. I don't think it will MOT like this, and more importantly it's dangerous of course if I forget to flick it up with my heel, or hit a pothole and it drops. don't know if the last will happen but I don't like the thought.
There is some cratering on the stand from rust, which I've taken off with a drill attachment wire brush, but it's only minor. It gets repainted regularly, it's lost v little since I got it 15 years ago.
Do the nuts need to be as tight as I've got them?
Re: Centre stand return isn't - Kenny Dave - 04-04-20
I'll get it off and get some pictures and have another look though. Maybe I've got the springs connected wrong or something, it went on without much effort which is suspicious.
Re: Centre stand return isn't - darrsi - 04-04-20
Pictures, or even a video showing movement/play is always helpful?
Re: Centre stand return isn't - Gnasher - 04-04-20
The stand will still move even if it's twisted, so not sure what your statement
(04-04-20, 10:38 AM)Kenny Dave link Wrote: It moves ok, not twisted. I can move it with my little finger. The external spring isn't snapped, although rusty as hell. The inner one I can't really see because of the rubber sheath inbetween. So that could be the problem.
Is trying to tell us? Also be aware these springs are very strong and need to be careful, removing them and you'll need a spring hook to refit them, without one it's a real pain :'(
Re: Centre stand return isn't - fazersharp - 04-04-20
(04-04-20, 10:50 AM)Gnasher link Wrote: The stand will still move even if it's twisted, so not sure what your statement
[quote author=Kenny Dave link=topic=26042.msg311757#msg311757 date=1585993126]
It moves ok, not twisted. I can move it with my little finger. The external spring isn't snapped, although rusty as hell. The inner one I can't really see because of the rubber sheath inbetween. So that could be the problem.
Is trying to tell us? Also be aware these springs are very strong and need to be careful, removing them and you'll need a spring hook to refit them, without one it's a real pain :'(
[/quote]Here is my centre stand refurbish post - may or may not help http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=20049.msg231622#msg231622 The springs can be taken off and refitted without special tools - so long you you have a very large vocabulary of swearwords :lol
Re: Centre stand return isn't - darrsi - 04-04-20
(04-04-20, 10:50 AM)Gnasher link Wrote: The stand will still move even if it's twisted, so not sure what your statement
[quote author=Kenny Dave link=topic=26042.msg311757#msg311757 date=1585993126]
It moves ok, not twisted. I can move it with my little finger. The external spring isn't snapped, although rusty as hell. The inner one I can't really see because of the rubber sheath inbetween. So that could be the problem.
Is trying to tell us? Also be aware these springs are very strong and need to be careful, removing them and you'll need a spring hook to refit them, without one it's a real pain :'(
[/quote]
Do you mean refitting the stand and the spring?
That's easy?
Re: Centre stand return isn't - Kenny Dave - 07-04-20
@Darsi, you've confirmed that it is the springs I think. Because yes, it is easy to get them on. I'll get a video of the movement this afternoon, I've been distracted by my FZR400 over the last few days.
Re: Centre stand return isn't - Gnasher - 07-04-20
(07-04-20, 12:22 PM)Kenny Dave link Wrote: Because yes, it is easy to get them on.
The stand or spring anchor pin must be bent/twisted, its not easy to get them on even with the correct tools.
Re: Centre stand return isn't - darrsi - 07-04-20
(07-04-20, 02:18 PM)Gnasher link Wrote: [quote author=Kenny Dave link=topic=26042.msg311983#msg311983 date=1586258574]
Because yes, it is easy to get them on.
The stand or spring anchor pin must be bent/twisted, its not easy to get them on even with the correct tools.
[/quote]
Not sure if we've got cross wires here, but once one of the bolts is in place the stand can then be pulled over to the other side to then fit the other bolt? No real fuss at all.
Re: Centre stand return isn't - Gnasher - 07-04-20
(07-04-20, 02:38 PM)darrsi link Wrote: Not sure if we've got cross wires here, but once one of the bolts is in place the stand can then be pulled over to the other side to then fit the other bolt? No real fuss at all.
Possibly, I've never done it that way, normally there's not enough play in the mountings to allow for it. If the stand is bent/twisted as mentioned or the mountings in the frame are bent it could well do. That said it may still be possible, but not easily, now your and my 'easily' are going to be very different. It's been a little while since I've fitted a stand, but all centre stand and springs on all bikes, in my experience, are a bit of a pain to fit, regardless of what tools you have. Yes they can be fitted with bent wire, string, pliers etc, but it's still a faff, so if yours it fitting easily it's not right
Re: Centre stand return isn't - BBROWN1664 - 07-04-20
IIRC, there are two springs on the centre stand. One inside the other. Have either snapped?
Re: Centre stand return isn't - fazersharp - 07-04-20
(07-04-20, 02:38 PM)darrsi link Wrote: [quote author=Gnasher link=topic=26042.msg312004#msg312004 date=1586265517]
[quote author=Kenny Dave link=topic=26042.msg311983#msg311983 date=1586258574]
Because yes, it is easy to get them on.
The stand or spring anchor pin must be bent/twisted, its not easy to get them on even with the correct tools.
[/quote]
Not sure if we've got cross wires here, but once one of the bolts is in place the stand can then be pulled over to the other side to then fit the other bolt? No real fuss at all.
[/quote]yes I can confirm that it is not difficult, just a bit fiddly, especially kneeling down or laying on your side. Couldn't imagine what tool would help actually
Re: Centre stand return isn't - darrsi - 07-04-20
(07-04-20, 03:38 PM)Gnasher link Wrote: [quote author=darrsi link=topic=26042.msg312007#msg312007 date=1586266722]
Not sure if we've got cross wires here, but once one of the bolts is in place the stand can then be pulled over to the other side to then fit the other bolt? No real fuss at all.
Possibly, I've never done it that way, normally there's not enough play in the mountings to allow for it. If the stand is bent/twisted as mentioned or the mountings in the frame are bent it could well do. That said it may still be possible, but not easily, now your and my 'easily' are going to be very different. It's been a little while since I've fitted a stand, but all centre stand and springs on all bikes, in my experience, are a bit of a pain to fit, regardless of what tools you have. Yes they can be fitted with bent wire, string, pliers etc, but it's still a faff, so if yours it fitting easily it's not right
[/quote]
Maybe we've been fortunate with these bikes then, because I promise you it's a piece of piss to put one back on.
The first bolt becomes the lever point so you can pull the stand into place on the other side while stretching the spring at the same time.
I can't even imagine trying to stretch the springs any other way because of how tightly sprung they are. Even more so as there's two of them together.
Re: Centre stand return isn't - darrsi - 07-04-20
(07-04-20, 07:50 PM)fazersharp link Wrote: [quote author=darrsi link=topic=26042.msg312007#msg312007 date=1586266722]
[quote author=Gnasher link=topic=26042.msg312004#msg312004 date=1586265517]
[quote author=Kenny Dave link=topic=26042.msg311983#msg311983 date=1586258574]
Because yes, it is easy to get them on.
The stand or spring anchor pin must be bent/twisted, its not easy to get them on even with the correct tools.
[/quote]
Not sure if we've got cross wires here, but once one of the bolts is in place the stand can then be pulled over to the other side to then fit the other bolt? No real fuss at all.
[/quote]yes I can confirm that it is not difficult, just a bit fiddly, especially kneeling down or laying on your side. Couldn't imagine what tool would help actually
[/quote]
Not something a mechanic would have to worry about with a risen bike, but yeah, the majority of us would need to lie on the floor to do it :lol
Re: Centre stand return isn't - Kenny Dave - 07-04-20
Pics and vid: https://imgur.com/a/epPehsa
Yes I did the sticking it at an angle, put one bolt in then angle it the other way.
Re: Centre stand return isn't - fazersharp - 07-04-20
(07-04-20, 07:59 PM)Kenny Dave link Wrote: Pics and vid: https://imgur.com/a/epPehsaYour vid was very useful. It looks like the bolts are too tight but I cannot remember if it is even possible to overtighten them, which then makes me think - is the stand twisted, it seems to have a sticking point at a place where there should be maximum pull by the springs at about the 8 oclock position
Yes I did the sticking it at an angle, put one bolt in then angle it the other way.
Re: Centre stand return isn't - Kenny Dave - 07-04-20
(07-04-20, 08:25 PM)fazersharp link Wrote: Your vid was very useful. It looks like the bolts are too tight but I cannot remember if it is even possible to overtighten them, which then makes me think - is the stand twisted, it seems to have a sticking point at a place where there should be maximum pull by the springs at about the 8 oclock positionI did them at about 30Nm, is it safer to have them looser? There's maximum extension of the springs at that point, but it's like going over a circle so the component of the force that moves the stand is least.
I think I should get it off and clean it up a bit better in there too.