How does the electricity market work?

How does the electricity market work? - Printable Version

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How does the electricity market work? - agricola - 15-11-19

Had a pamphlet dropped through the letter box yesterday for my electricity distribution network operator. It states that they deliver power to my home, and receive around 17% of my household bill, paid to them by my provider.

The question is, if the deliverer is delivering to my home, what am I paying the provider for, who is taking the other 83%?

Cant quite get my head around how this system operates

Re: How does the electricity market work? - fazersharp - 15-11-19

I think they own the wires - pylons transformers etc 17% and the rest is the generators that make all the electric trickery in the electric factories (something like that )

Re: How does the electricity market work? - BBROWN1664 - 15-11-19

The people you pay the bill to have to pay National Grid for the actually electricity and a local company to do the last mile stuff.

In days of old where you didn't get a choice, you paid your bill to the last mile company and they settled up with National Grid for the supply stuff.

Its all smoke and mirrors. Just like Broadband.
Openreach provide the cables, BT provide the exchange, TalkTalk/Sky/etc rent space in the exchange for their routers etc.

Re: How does the electricity market work? - agricola - 15-11-19

So far, it looks like there are

1) Generators
2) Distributors
3) Suppliers

Generators generate electricity
Distributors send it down the wires
Suppliers do jack shit but charge £83 of the total bill since the previous two both generate and supply

Doesnt make sense. The generators and distributors are supplying electricity to my home. What do the suppliers claim to be doing?

Re: How does the electricity market work? - VNA - 15-11-19

Renationalise and re-integrate the system.
Much of the plant and system is foreign owned, and often state foreign owned at that, their priority is making as much profit as possible and getting it out of the country.
The bulk of our utilities, infrastructure and public services have been privatised and are now run by foreign owned companies.
Oh dear, I better foc off back tae the other thread……… :'(

Re: How does the electricity market work? - BBROWN1664 - 15-11-19

(15-11-19, 05:19 PM)agricola link Wrote: So far, it looks like there are

1) Electricity Generators
2) Distributors
3) National Carrier/Cables
4) Local Supplier/Meter Reader
5) Bill generator

Updated it for you

Re: How does the electricity market work? - agricola - 15-11-19

(15-11-19, 05:38 PM)BBROWN1664 link Wrote: [quote author=agricola link=topic=25753.msg304851#msg304851 date=1573834785]
So far, it looks like there are

1) Electricity Generators
2) Distributors
3) National Carrier/Cables
4) Local Supplier/Meter Reader
5) Bill generator

Updated it for you
[/quote]

Whereas all of this was once carried out by one company, now we have several all charging as part of a total bill. Begining to think its overly bureaucratic, with too many involved in the chain and doing little to either produce or supply. For once, I AGREE WITH VNA :'(

Re: How does the electricity market work? - VNA - 15-11-19

Quote:Whereas all of this was once carried out by one company,

Well I think there were four, CEGB (England and Wales), SSEB (South of Scotland), NIES (Northern Ireland) and The Hydro Board (North of Scotland). But yeah four state owned companies that looked after their customers - rather than rip em off at every oppertunity.

Quote:For once, [size=2em]I AGREE WITH VNA [/size]

Of course you always do Confused

Re: How does the electricity market work? - fazersharp - 15-11-19

(15-11-19, 06:08 PM)agricola link Wrote: Begining to think its overly bureaucratic, with too many involved in the chain and doing little to either produce or supply.

Sounds exactly like how the EU is run

Re: How does the electricity market work? - mtread - 16-11-19

As far as I'm aware, the companies we buy from themselves buy from the generators in bulk and then resell to us. They don't actually own any of the distribution infrastructure, other than perhaps the meter in your home. The 'National Grid' is one big network of transformers, pylons etc. Electricity isn't 'stored' as such. Generation is increased or decreased according to demand.

Went to an interesting (honestly) Hydro station near Oban last year, where they use the flow to generate during the day, then pump the water back up during the night when demand drops. They can increase or decrease generation with 30 mins notice. Useful for World Cup half times etc. They also said that if they find they have too much capacity, they ring round the likes of British Gas, SSE etc offering them a cheap rate.

The generators that produce at a continuous rate are of course nuclear. Nobody dares/knows how to turn them off!

Re: How does the electricity market work? - VNA - 16-11-19

Quote:They can increase or decrease generation with 30 mins notice.

Are you sure they didn't say 30 seconds?
If a nuclear station losses a unit, the control supervisor lifts the phone and calls the grid. The grid controller might call on Cruachan to make up the difference. It can do 0 -440Mw in about 30 seconds. That buys time to get to reconfigure and get other stuff online.

Quote:The generators that produce at a continuous rate are of course nuclear. Nobody dares/knows how to turn them off!

Nuclear reactors are not very flexible, they are designed to run pretty much flat out round the clock week in week out, it takes time to adjust output. Part of base load. So, during the night the excess generation is used to pump water back up into pumped storage hydro dams.

If you’ve ever wondered why wind turbines sometimes spin on windless days. Why that’s just excess generation being absorbed.

Of course, key to become greener is the European DC super grid. Means we can transmit generation efficiently over thousands of miles. There’s, just in wind alone potentially enough power to run the whole of the EU – if it isn’t blowing here, it’ll be blowing there.

Another reason why BREXIT is so fuckin dumb. :'(

Re: How does the electricity market work? - VNA - 16-11-19

Cruachan, from about 3000 feet up.

[Image: 33870424623_0aa972d168_c.jpg]

Re: How does the electricity market work? - VNA - 16-11-19

And fae the summit of Stob Diamh. Saw foc all fae Ben Cruchan that day.
[Image: 34906637541_aed4db7500_c.jpg]

Re: How does the electricity market work? - mtread - 16-11-19

Yes Cruachan. Did the tour.

Quote: Are you sure they didn't say 30 seconds?

Not during a tea break Smile

Re: How does the electricity market work? - VNA - 16-11-19

This is looking at Ben Cruachan from Stob Diamh a year or so later. Both are Munros but it’s amazing how much bigger Cruachan looks from Stob Diamh. I came up over Beinn a’ Bhuiridh that day as I had skipped it the previous year – didn’t have the stamina to include it. Plenty of fine walking on these hills.

[Image: 47658152561_646c9586e8_c.jpg]

Re: How does the electricity market work? - YamFazFan - 16-11-19

(16-11-19, 01:54 AM)VNA link Wrote: If you’ve ever wondered why wind turbines sometimes spin on windless days. Why that’s just excess generation being absorbed.

Yeah I'd noticed that down in Cornwall where there's loads of them and wondered how come. Mystery solved :think
Great Highland photos BTW.

Re: How does the electricity market work? - VNA - 16-11-19

Quote:Great Highland photos BTW.

Cheers YamFazFan.

The weather has been generally cold and settled the last couple of weeks. There are endless beautiful snaps rolling into my twitter feed depicting perfect early winter conditions on the Scottish hills. But I’m stuck wi this darn stent in ma kidney – not to mention my ongoing struggle wi ma knees. Itching tae get back up the hills again.

Beinn na Caillich - Skye

[Image: 26344432027_457be78406_c.jpg]

Re: How does the electricity market work? - agricola - 16-11-19

(16-11-19, 12:31 AM)mtread link Wrote: As far as I'm aware, the companies we buy from themselves buy from the generators in bulk and then resell to us. They don't actually own any of the distribution infrastructure, other than perhaps the meter in your home. The 'National Grid' is one big network of transformers, pylons etc. Electricity isn't 'stored' as such. Generation is increased or decreased according to demand.

Went to an interesting (honestly) Hydro station near Oban last year, where they use the flow to generate during the day, then pump the water back up during the night when demand drops. They can increase or decrease generation with 30 mins notice. Useful for World Cup half times etc. They also said that if they find they have too much capacity, they ring round the likes of British Gas, SSE etc offering them a cheap rate.

The generators that produce at a continuous rate are of course nuclear. Nobody dares/knows how to turn them off!

Its beginning to appear much as I thought. The company I pay the bill to do practically fuck all but take 83% of the annual bill. Privatisation seems to have introduced middlemen/agents into the process, each taking a cut and inflating the price along the way. I guess that principle is repeated in the water/gas industries too

Re: How does the electricity market work? - VNA - 16-11-19

Nuclear Power and mountains;
[Image: 4219651643_7b3e6d76ff_c.jpg]

Re: How does the electricity market work? - mtread - 16-11-19

Quote: I guess that principle is repeated in the water/gas industries too

Water (and sewage) is worse. Private company monopolies without any competitors. They charge whatever they like, and you have no options.