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+--- Thread: Ivan kit and revisit to cold starting (/showthread.php?tid=81216)
Ivan kit and revisit to cold starting - NitramA - 19-10-19
I tried to put up with the ongoing cold start problems I’ve posted about before with the view that maybe it’s normal behaviour.
However, even if I left it idling for a couple of minutes it would still bog down really badly when I tried to drive off.
As we live off a busy junction it was getting dangerous trying to merge with traffic when the bike would just lose power when I let the clutch out and put the engine under some load.
When I did manage to coax it into moving It would be OK after a quarter of a mile or so.
From then on it pulls ok and idles with no issues.
So, I’ve decided that there is still something wrong with the carbs.
This time i decided that if I’ve got to whip them out again I also want to fit Ivan’s kit.
So The carbs are off the bike but before I fit Ivan’s kit I wondered if someone could offer advice on what I should look for in the cold start circuit.
All the plungers are moving and from the outside everything seems ok.
Re: Ivan kit and revisit to cold starting - unfazed - 20-10-19
I have found the 1000 to be a cold creature and needs a few minutes to warm up before riding off, otherwise it will keep bogging down until it does warm up.
My method is full choke start it up and let it run on the choke until the revs drop, then choke off and away.
Re: Ivan kit and revisit to cold starting - Ricky - 20-10-19
My experience with cold stating is first turn on the ignition and give the pump time to prime. I noticed if you just turn on and fire straight away it would be difficult to start and bog down. May be I just have a slow priming pump, but it works for me and I use about half choke.
After I had my bike Ivanised I found the bike more difficult to start at first. I now find the bike a bit more temperamental and may need a few goes to start.
Re: Ivan kit and revisit to cold starting - NitramA - 20-10-19
Thanks for the feedback guys.
I find that I use full choke to start but the revs never really increase to a fast tickover like I’m sure they used too.
If I don’t back off the choke almost immediately it will die, so I have to hold it on the throttle until it will tick over.
I then leave it for a couple of minutes before trying to move off.
I also let the pump stop clicking so assume it’s fully primed.
I see the choke mechanism can be removed/replaced but at £80 a carb I’d rather not f**k them by fiddling.
I think I’m going to have to have a look though!
Re: Ivan kit and revisit to cold starting - unfazed - 20-10-19
What's your air filter like?
Re: Ivan kit and revisit to cold starting - NitramA - 20-10-19
Brand new about 200 miles ago.
Re: Ivan kit and revisit to cold starting - unfazed - 20-10-19
Has the problem only come to light since you changed the AIR filter?Out of curiosity what make is the air filter?
Re: Ivan kit and revisit to cold starting - CatalinU - 20-10-19
(20-10-19, 10:40 AM)Ricky link Wrote: After I had my bike Ivanised I found the bike more difficult to start at first. I now find the bike a bit more temperamental and may need a few goes to start.
Same here, nothing to bad, just the start and then i have to let it warm up, then runs like rocket
Re: Ivan kit and revisit to cold starting - ogri48 - 20-10-19
gen ones are getting old, and like any old carbed bike, its realistic to expect to up both preventative and emergency maintenance mate. I wouldn't fit the Ivans until youve solved the problem, otherwise its just more blind alleyways looking for the answer.
If you take your carbs out and thoroughly clean everything (including every tiny hole in emulsion tubes etc) not only may you solve it, but it will make it far easier the second time around to get the carbs in and out for the Ivans, as you will have a better idea of the steps involved.
Im slowly working on my xjr13; have replaced the stock inlets for 36y unrestricted jobbies, cleaned carbs along with checking float heights and balance, 4degree ignition advancer and 17t gearbox sprocket (stock is 18), but do everything one step at a time then try the bike for a few days before moving on to the next job(in my case its the AIS).
The good thing about the fazer is its pretty much engineering from the ark, so you will be able to sort it mate
mine starts better with the Ivans but I have to let the pump prime fully, and im running slightly richer than ivans instructions.
Re: Ivan kit and revisit to cold starting - NitramA - 20-10-19
I couldn’t agree more about taking one step at a time.
This is the second time I’ve taken the carbs off and the very reason I didn’t install Ivan’s kit then was that I didn’t want to confuse myself with multiple problems.
Second time round the carbs almost came out on their own!
Last time I cleaned out the jets and there was a marked improvement in the way it went.
I was just left with the cold start issue.
Looking at YouTube, the Haynes manual and posts on this forum, I think I’ve not properly cleaned some muck out from somewhere.
The way everything is interconnected leads me to believe it’s still gummed up which gives odd symptoms that may be nothing to do with the choke.
Looking at them now, all choke plungers move freely and I can see,them opening up the galleries in the carb body.
If I don’t find anything concrete in there Ivan will have to wait.
Re: Ivan kit and revisit to cold starting - unfazed - 20-10-19
What have you set the tick over speed to?
It sounds like pilot circuit is not doing its job properly.
What are the pilot screws set to?
Re: Ivan kit and revisit to cold starting - NitramA - 21-10-19
As an update I thought I’d take another look at the jets.
Everything seemed ok until I got to #3 where the needle jet (according to Pats photo) or the starter jet (according to the Haynes manual) was definitely more restricted to my needle jet cleaner poker thingy.
Slight pressure opened it up the same as #1 & #2.
#4 needle jet is much more blocked and whilst I can see through it there’s no way I could get the tool through without being in danger of applying too much pressure. I’ve left it in carb cleaner to soak for an hour or two.
I should say the the tool is a motorcycle specific jet cleaner and I’m using the smallest poker.
Being paranoid I’m now worried I’ve opened up 1,2,3 and 4 is the only one that’s the correct size! :eek
The Pilot jet and all the emulsion tubes are squeaky clean.
Re: Ivan kit and revisit to cold starting - ogri48 - 21-10-19
nitrama i had a similar issue and it turned out to be one of the fuel inlet o rings... I'd changed them for new when I Ivanised, but had nicked one. That cylinder was running cold as it was overfuelling, and didn't fire until the bike hit 6k. I actually bought 50 of em as Mike gave me a heads up to sourcing them...if you want half a dozen so its summat else you can knock out of the equation, pm me your addy buddy, i'll post em out pronto (Gratis obvs as the young people say lol)
Re: Ivan kit and revisit to cold starting - NitramA - 21-10-19
(21-10-19, 08:28 PM)ogri48 link Wrote: nitrama i had a similar issue and it turned out to be one of the fuel inlet o rings... I'd changed them for new when I Ivanised, but had nicked one. That cylinder was running cold as it was overfuelling, and didn't fire until the bike hit 6k. I actually bought 50 of em as Mike gave me a heads up to sourcing them...if you want half a dozen so its summat else you can knock out of the equation, pm me your addy buddy, i'll post em out pronto (Gratis obvs as the young people say lol)
PM sent. Really appreciate the offer.
Re: Ivan kit and revisit to cold starting - ogri48 - 21-10-19
not a problem bud. i'll get em in the post first class in the morning. best of luck with the rest of it mate :thumbup
Re: Ivan kit and revisit to cold starting - unfazed - 22-10-19
You can always buy new starter jets if necessary. However it would not be a huge issue if the starter jets were a little larger than Mikuni 42.5 size as they are not in use unless the choke is operated.
Are they stainless steel jet cleaners? I usually use brass wire from a brass bristle brush as it will not harm the jets.
Never a great fan of Carb Cleaner, much prefer Cellulose thinners, it can tarnish the jets if they are immersed for over a few hours, but certainly dissolves lacquer quicker than carb cleaner.
Re: Ivan kit and revisit to cold starting - Trebus - 22-10-19
Ultrasonic baths are great if you can get hold / borrow one. Cleans out all the small chambers to remove varnish.
Re: Ivan kit and revisit to cold starting - NitramA - 22-10-19
(22-10-19, 12:00 AM)unfazed link Wrote: You can always buy new starter jets if necessary. However it would not be a huge issue if the starter jets were a little larger than Mikuni 42.5 size as they are not in use unless the choke is operated.
Are they stainless steel jet cleaners? I usually use brass wire from a brass bristle brush as it will not harm the jets.
Never a great fan of Carb Cleaner, much prefer Cellulose thinners, it can tarnish the jets if they are immersed for over a few hours, but certainly dissolves lacquer quicker than carb cleaner.
Having cleaned and compared all the jets they’re all the same size across the carbs so I’m sure they’re ok.
Youre right though, if I’m in any doubt I’ll just buy a new jet.
Re: Ivan kit and revisit to cold starting - NitramA - 22-10-19
(22-10-19, 10:43 AM)Trebus link Wrote: Ultrasonic baths are great if you can get hold / borrow one. Cleans out all the small chambers to remove varnish.
Was thinking about getting one I must admit.
Having a quick look to get one that I can just dump four carbs in is a bit £££££ and I don’t fancy breaking them down to single items either.
In saying that if this doesn’t work.....
Re: Ivan kit and revisit to cold starting - CatalinU - 22-10-19
(22-10-19, 12:00 AM)unfazed link Wrote: You can always buy new starter jets if necessary. However it would not be a huge issue if the starter jets were a little larger than Mikuni 42.5 size as they are not in use unless the choke is operated.
Are they stainless steel jet cleaners? I usually use brass wire from a brass bristle brush as it will not harm the jets.
Never a great fan of Carb Cleaner, much prefer Cellulose thinners, it can tarnish the jets if they are immersed for over a few hours, but certainly dissolves lacquer quicker than carb cleaner.
Do you know what's the part number for those jets?