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+--- Thread: Bike doesn't turn on / no lights (/showthread.php?tid=79037)
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Bike doesn't turn on / no lights - Diogo.fps - 18-11-17
[color=rgb(29, 33, 41)]Hey everyone.
My 2003 Fazer 600 stopped working for no apparent reason.
Rode it to work, everything was fine. When i was about to go back home, she didn't turn on.
When i turn the key, no lights come on, at all.[/color]
[color=rgb(29, 33, 41)]I've tried another battery and it still doesn't work. Also, I've checked the fuses and they are intact.
[/color]
Has this ever happened to anyone?
I have no idea of where to look.
Re: Bike doesn't turn on / no lights - daviee - 18-11-17
either a dead battery of main fuse or corroded ignition barrel plug get the multi meter out also check the main fuse at the starter relay
Re: Bike doesn't turn on / no lights - Fazerider - 18-11-17
Check the connector bundle in the plastic box under the tank for one that’s showing signs of getting hot.
Examine the wires at the base of the ignition switch itself, they have to flex with steering movement so it’s a common place to get a breakage.
Re: Bike doesn't turn on / no lights - tommyardin - 18-11-17
Worth a check. The cable from the battery that goes down to earth/ ground on the engine casing, right hand side of the bike at the back of the engine, at this point they can get a form of white powdery corrosion where the steel bolt and the alloy engine cases join (some sort of electrolysis) take the bolt out wire brush the bolt and WD the the bolt hole in the engine case. Make sure the circular cable connector is clean as well. Only take 10 mins tops and if it makes no difference you have at the very least eliminated poor grounding.
If it is corroded badly and no connection it has the same outcome as not having that earth or ground lead attached to the battery. Good luck.
Re: Bike doesn't turn on / no lights - tommyardin - 18-11-17
Years ago I had a prick pen, now, now that's enough lads, allow me to continue.
It was like a ballpoint pen with a very sharp short needle at one end and a small bulb at the other end, half way along its length it had a flying lead about 2 foot long with a small crocodile clip.
Now somehow the needle and the centre contact on the bulb must of been connected and the flying lead to the mount or negative side of the bulb.
It was brilliant for finding out if cables had power and you could work your way along the length of a cable or wire and find the exact point the the break was. The needle made such a fine hole in the insulation just rubbing that sport hard with a thumb nail and it seemed to disappear.
I,m going to make one, it's not rocket science. Sewing machine needle, six inch length plastic tube, small bulb (12 volt) and bulb holder, wire a crock clip and builder bucket full of aradite. Jobs-a-Goodun
Update:
thinking about it you could do exactly the same thing using a multi meter with a very sharp positive probe
Re: Bike doesn't turn on / no lights - Disorderlypunk - 18-11-17
(18-11-17, 10:25 AM)tommyardin link Wrote: Years ago I had a prick pen, now, now that's enough lads, allow me to continue.
It was like a ballpoint pen with a very sharp short needle at one end and a small bulb at the other end, half way along its length it had a flying lead about 2 foot long with a small crocodile clip.
Now somehow the needle and the centre contact on the bulb must of been connected and the flying lead to the mount or negative side of the bulb.
It was brilliant for finding out if cables had power and you could work your way along the length of a cable or wire and find the exact point the the break was. The needle made such a fine hole in the insulation just rubbing that sport hard with a thumb nail and it seemed to disappear.
I,m going to make one, it's not rocket science. Sewing machine needle, six inch length plastic tube, small bulb (12 volt) and bulb holder, wire a crock clip and builder bucket full of aradite. Jobs-a-Goodun
Update:
thinking about it you could do exactly the same thing using a multi meter with a very sharp positive probe
just get some spare leads for your multimeter and solder a sewing machine needle to it on positive side (just key the multimeter surface first to make sure it gets a good hold)
- could try tacking it on with a welder but i have a feeling something would melt first
Re: Bike doesn't turn on / no lights - tommyardin - 18-11-17
I get the feeling that the Multi-meter probe would act more like the welding rod than the welding rod did on my 180 amp ark welder, it too fierce for a car body and exhaust repairs, :eek blows hole rather than mends.
Re: Bike doesn't turn on / no lights - tommyardin - 18-11-17
Home made Prick Pen circuit tester:
2. Single Chocolate Block Connectors.
1. Crocodile Clip.
1. Jewellers Screwdriver Bit.
1. Length of Wire (Preferably Black 2'6" Long)
Tools Needed:
Fine file to sharpen the Jewellers Screwdriver bit to a point.
Soldering Iron to solder the Crocodile Clip to on end of the length wire and to tin the other end.
Can be used to check if a wire has current, can be used to find the point where the break is by checking along a wire length.
Can still be used as a normal Multi-Meter to check continuity and resistance. Undo the two screws that grip the probes and your back to a standard Multi-Meter The Screwdriver bit I used was from a Rolson Jewellers mini screwdriver purchased from Robert Dyers, it comes with about 8 or 9 bits held within the body of driver
The rest as they say is! See pictures.
Re: Bike doesn't turn on / no lights - Diogo.fps - 18-11-17
[size=1em]Hey guys, [color=rgb(29, 33, 41)]I've found what the problem was! [/color][/size]
[color=rgb(29, 33, 41)]Under the tank there's a box with a lot of cables and connections.[/color]
Apparently some water found its way there, and this happened:
https://i.imgur.com/okdXWf1.jpg
[smg id=3044 type=preview align=center caption="IMG 20171118 WA0001"]
[color=rgb(29, 33, 41)]
That's the connector/cable coming from the ignition, t[/color]hat's why when I turned the ignition on, no light would come on.The cable itself is really stiff and stripped, so I should replace all of it.
[color=rgb(29, 33, 41)]Either that or replace the ignition + seat lock + petrol cap, if I don't feel like messing with wires.[/color][color=rgb(29, 33, 41)]
Maybe this wouldn't have happened if the bike had the a 10A ignition fuse (as it should) instead of the 25A one it had.
I've found out about the fuse yesterday and i've already replaced it.[/color]
Re: Bike doesn't turn on / no lights - tommyardin - 18-11-17
(18-11-17, 10:47 PM)Diogo.fps link Wrote: [size=1em]Hey guys, [color=rgb(29, 33, 41)]I've found what the problem was! [/color][/size]
[color=rgb(29, 33, 41)]Under the tank there's a box with a lot of cables and connections.[/color]
Apparently some water found its way there, and this happened:
https://i.imgur.com/okdXWf1.jpg
[color=rgb(29, 33, 41)]
That's the connector/cable coming from the ignition, t[/color]hat's why when I turned the ignition on, no light would come on.The cable itself is really stiff and stripped, so I should replace all of it.
[color=rgb(29, 33, 41)]Either that or replace the ignition + seat lock + petrol cap, if I don't feel like messing with wires.[/color][color=rgb(29, 33, 41)]
Maybe this wouldn't have happened if the bike had the a 10A ignition fuse (as it should) instead of the 25A one it had.
I've found out about the fuse yesterday and i've already replaced it.[/color]
Hi Diogo,
Me thinks you got away very lightly with that, there was potential there for a mas of destruction, possible fire in that box that could have set fire to the plastic that the box is made of melting the main fuel line from the tank to the carbs 'BOOM' Good night Fazer.
Re: Bike doesn't turn on / no lights - Diogo.fps - 19-11-17
(18-11-17, 11:31 PM)tommyardin link Wrote: Hi Diogo,
Me thinks you got away very lightly with that, there was potential there for a mas of destruction, possible fire in that box that could have set fire to the plastic that the box is made of melting the main fuel line from the tank to the carbs [size=1.45em]'BOOM' [/size][size=1em]Good night Fazer.[/size]
And possibly "Good night Diogo" too lol
Yeah I thought about that too, from now on I'll be checking a lot more when I buy a used bike.
It's my fourth, but I've never seen anything like this (nor this dangerous) before
Re: Bike doesn't turn on / no lights - darrsi - 19-11-17
Takes some serious water to get there, have you ever jet washed your bike recently?
Re: Bike doesn't turn on / no lights - tommyardin - 19-11-17
You were unfortunate and yet fortunate at the same time. Glad it all worked out. But not quite sure why you are replacing the ignition, fuel tank and seat locks, if it was just water getting into the box (plus I would guess a loose connection on the joint) causing it to ark and spark, just make a repair to that section of wiring useing a largish chocolate block connector or maybe two if you are going to replace a short length of the burnt part of cable, keeping the chocolate block connectors within the confines of the black box, give the whole of the inside of the box a goood blast of WD 40 and you should be good. Replacing all those switches will be very expensive and time consuming.
The FZS 600 is a wonderful machine, very reliable, goes very well (quick) an is eager to please most Fazer owners whether the 600 or the Mighty Thou have a permanent grin when riding.
Great choice of bike.
Re: Bike doesn't turn on / no lights - bandit - 19-11-17
Not convinced myself that it's just water damage as plugs are melted,why is there a 25 amp fuse where a 10 amp should be. [img alt=Shocked]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/shocked.gif[/img]
Re: Bike doesn't turn on / no lights - celticbiker - 19-11-17
Doesn't look like water damage to me either. Looks more like a short circuit or high current load causing the connector to overheat.
I guess if the connector spades are badly corroded it could cause a high resistance and result in what you see.
It's possible that the previous owner had fuses blowing because of this so just chucked in a big fuse to get around it.
After repairing this problem I would suggest checking all the other connectors and cleaning with Duck oil (not wd40) or acf 50 to prevent any future problems.
Re: Bike doesn't turn on / no lights - Fazerider - 19-11-17
According to the wiring diagram for the 02 model, the ignition fuse is 20A.
It doesn’t look to me as if water was involved: that plug carries power for almost everything, including the headlights, so the currents are quite high. If the connection is not making very tight contact this will result in overheating.
Re: Bike doesn't turn on / no lights - Diogo.fps - 19-11-17
No darrsi, i've never jet washed it, don't know about previous owners though.
(19-11-17, 12:56 AM)tommyardin link Wrote: But not quite sure why you are replacing the ignition, fuel tank and seat locks, if it was just water getting into the box (plus I would guess a loose connection on the joint) causing it to ark and spark, just make a repair to that section of wiring useing a largish chocolate block connector or maybe two if you are going to replace a short length of the burnt part of cable, keeping the chocolate block connectors within the confines of the black box, give the whole of the inside of the box a goood blast of WD 40 and you should be good. Replacing all those switches will be very expensive and time consuming.
I thought about changing the ignition just in case I didn't manage to fix the wires, it's more of a backup plan. And if i change the ignition, i would have to change the fuel tank lock and the seat lock too, too keep using just one key. (i found the 3 of them for about 50€ on ebay). But yeah, that's just a backup plan if all else fails.
I'd like to literally replace that wire with another instead of fixing just the tip of it. That's because I can't be sure the rest of the wire isn't as bad as the tip of it, all i know is that it's stiff, and i guess it shouldn't be.
And thank you, it's the 2nd Fazer i have
It's such a versatile bike(19-11-17, 10:50 AM)celticbiker link Wrote: Doesn't look like water damage to me either. Looks more like a short circuit or high current load causing the connector to overheat.But since the wire is stripped at the tip, if water got there, wouldn't it short-circuit?
I guess if the connector spades are badly corroded it could cause a high resistance and result in what you see.
It's possible that the previous owner had fuses blowing because of this so just chucked in a big fuse to get around it.
After repairing this problem I would suggest checking all the other connectors and cleaning with Duck oil (not wd40) or acf 50 to prevent any future problems.
So, by cleaning all connectors I would lower their resistance and prevend them from overheating, is that it?
(19-11-17, 12:38 PM)Fazerider link Wrote: According to the wiring diagram for the 02 model, the ignition fuse is 20A.
You're right, I was thinking of the signal fuse, not the ignition one. So I guess you've debunked my theory ahah, nothing to do with fuses
Here's how the fuse box was (25A fuse on 10A signal)
Re: Bike doesn't turn on / no lights - His Dudeness - 19-11-17
I think the mostly likely cause was the connection became loose, which caused increased resistance, which caused increased heat, which melted the connector and started to melt the wire. That continued to happen and got worse over time until the point where there was too much resistance and not enough current could get through to turn on the bike. That would be my guess on what happened. The best fix would be to cut back the wire on both sides of the bad connector until you get to clean undamaged wire and then solder and heat shrink in a new wire and crimp on a new oem style connector.
Re: Bike doesn't turn on / no lights - His Dudeness - 19-11-17
I don't think a poor connection like you had there will blow a fuse. I think a poor connection will cause increased resistance which causes a voltage drop so less current flow so the fuse won't blow. A short circuit on the other hand which is where a power wire comes in contact with a ground before it goes through the load will cause increased current flow because a short is basically removing the resistance of the load so it's the opposite of a poor connection. So way more current flows which blows the fuse. That'd explain why your fuse didn't blow.
Re: Bike doesn't turn on / no lights - celticbiker - 19-11-17
(19-11-17, 02:22 PM)Diogo.fps link Wrote: [quote author=celticbiker link=topic=23506.msg271388#msg271388 date=1511085048]But since the wire is stripped at the tip, if water got there, wouldn't it short-circuit?
Doesn't look like water damage to me either. Looks more like a short circuit or high current load causing the connector to overheat.
I guess if the connector spades are badly corroded it could cause a high resistance and result in what you see.
It's possible that the previous owner had fuses blowing because of this so just chucked in a big fuse to get around it.
After repairing this problem I would suggest checking all the other connectors and cleaning with Duck oil (not wd40) or acf 50 to prevent any future problems.
So, by cleaning all connectors I would lower their resistance and prevend them from overheating, is that it?
[/quote]
It's surprisingly difficult to short circuit something with water unless you submerge it or pour on a cup full, corrosion over time causing resistance is usually the result of water ingress
Yes, cleaning connectors and preventing future corrosion via Duck oil or ACF50 will lower the resistance (to within designed parameters) and prevent this from happening in the future.
I do this globally every 2 years and every year just before winter on exposed or important ones like the main relay and the two connector blocks on top of the radiator (Fazer 8).
I cover 20000 miles/year in all weather and cannot stress enough the need to properly maintain the electrical system and having a few spares makes an unexpected breakdown a lot less stressful.
I always keep a main relay, starter relay and flasher relay on hand just in case but that's just me as I also keep a full set of chassis bearings ( wheels, swing arm and headstock) chain and sprockets and a set of fork seals and spare wheels with tyres, just makes life so much less stressful.