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+--- Thread: 4 degree ignition advancer are their worth fitting? (/showthread.php?tid=76614)
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4 degree ignition advancer are their worth fitting? - Ricky - 17-09-16
I have has a few problems starting the FZS, properly more down to me than the bike. I have been told the advancer might help, and it would hopefully help the midrange. I find when I want to over take a car I have to go down a lot of gears, and than it still feels a bit flat.I am used to torkey twins and a GSXR 750, so may be asking to much of the Fzs.
I am hopeing to get the bike Ivanised in the spring, so do Ivansing and advancer go together, or should I just wait till the spring?
Re: 4 degree ignition advancer are their worth fitting? - PieEater - 17-09-16
Something doesn't sound right, you shouldn't be having to drop down "a lot of gears" to overtake cars, maybe you have a European import with a restrictor kit fitted? You'll need to take one of the carb tops off to see if you can find a grommet that would prevent the slide from fully working. You could maybe check the Throttle Position Sensor to see if this is out, check Pat's guide for details on how to do this, there is a link in the FAQ. Might also be worth running some Redline fuel system cleaner through a couple of tanks in case the carbs are slightly blocked.
An ignition advancer will give you a slight boost at the bottom to mid range but it's a subtle difference not night and day. You can fit one before or after Ivanising it will still have the same affect.
Re: 4 degree ignition advancer are their worth fitting? - Tmation - 17-09-16
First check that the air filter intake isn't blocked (spare gloves or a cleaning rag are favourite here).
Check your air filter is clean while you are there.
You also need to check that your EXUP valve is working correctly, it sounds like it might not be fully opening. If there is too much slack in the cables you wont get the 7000 rpm fault code.
Re: 4 degree ignition advancer are their worth fitting? - unfazed - 17-09-16
As Tmation says check EXUP is set properly sounds like the cables have stretched or the valve is sticking, then check the air filter and then the TPS setting .
Ivanising won't fix a problem that is already present.
Re: 4 degree ignition advancer are their worth fitting? - Ricky - 17-09-16
The bike is a import but I have had the carps balanced and checked no pungs,,the in take is not blocked and I had the exup valve checked a few month's ago and K&N air filter was cleaned.If you rev it though the gears from a stand still it goes well.I tend to ride the bike around in 6 gear most of the time at 60 mph plus and when I want get buy cars I find I have to drop a lot of gears to get some power. The exup valve did give me trouble when I bought the bike it was stuck shut and I got the 7000 rpm show,but the bike feels much different to then.
The bike has a K&N filter and slip on exhaust and don't know if any jeting has been changed, the needles are standard and wonder if that may be the problem. Just hope Mike can do his magic. in the spring.
I don't know any thing about TPS settings, so may look in to it.
I have spent a lot of time on big twins and GSXR 750 so it may be me, but have to say I am disappointed with the Fzs.
Re: 4 degree ignition advancer are their worth fitting? - unfazed - 17-09-16
Imported from where, as far I can remember some French one were restricted no sure about German ones.
Could also be a TPS issue set wrong they can make it feel dead.
Lift the tank locate the connector from the TPS switch on the ignition, set the kill switch to run
Disconnect the TPS connector and reconnect it.
Rev counter should go to 5000 if it stays at 0 or goes to 10000 it is out of adjustments.
O will make the bike it feel dead 10000 will not and some set it to 10 as it advances the ignition slightly
To set it loosen the 2 Security Torx bolts on the TPS and move it until the rev counter reads 5.
You can always try 10000 or the dynamic setting later
Tighten the screws and start the bike or turn the ignition off.
Would still check the Exup is set up correctly
Re: 4 degree ignition advancer are their worth fitting? - Ricky - 17-09-16
I believe it came from the USA but not California.
If your rev it hard from a stand still it goes well but my GSXR 750 would have left it for dead.
Re: 4 degree ignition advancer are their worth fitting? - Tmation - 18-09-16
I think you are expecting too much from your Fazer and may need to adjust your riding style.
The GSXR750 weighs about 40 kg less than the Fazer, it will rev much faster due to engine tune and the gearing will be different.
The Fazer is geared for about 30 mph above its real top speed (over geared) where as sport bikes will get close to their red line in top.
Riding at 60 in 6th it will take a little while to get into its stride, I would use 4th for quick overtakes.
Like you I ride my bike in deluxe moped mode most of the time, but you will need to use lower gears to go faster.
I would still check that the EXUP is working and adjusted correctly or the bike will go flat.
Does it rev to the red line in first, second and third without problem?
Re: 4 degree ignition advancer are their worth fitting? - unfazed - 18-09-16
(17-09-16, 09:17 PM)Ricky link Wrote: I believe it came from the USA but not California.
If your rev it hard from a stand still it goes well but my GSXR 750 would have left it for dead.
You must have definitely a problem with your 1000, I have ridden both and there is no way a bog standard K4/K5 Gsxr750 would leave my bog standard 1000 for dead. (to compare like year with like year) :eek
I also know for a fact that the Fzs1000 will give a 2014 Gsxr750 a good run for its money, finally losing out on top speed, which surprised me especially as it's over 20kg heavier with an ould fellow riding the Fazer. :lol
The Fazers are not sportsbikes just superb all rounder which requires a totally different riding style with the 1000 needing a little more fettling to make it so more than the 600.
In any case and any bike over 600 I have ridden I would never just roll on the throttle at 60mph in top gear to overtake unless it was on a very long free straight road. I would like Tmation drop 1 or 2 gears and go
Re: 4 degree ignition advancer are their worth fitting? - Ricky - 18-09-16
I am properly wrong to compere one bike against another, especially when I have not ridden the GSXR in over a year, but I rode the bike for 8 years and loved how the bike made its power, you are right I may be expecting to much of the Fzs.
If you go from a standing start the bike revs to the red line and goes very well and makes power .I ride round in 6 at 60mph and I find dropping one gear does northing , you have to go to at least 4 .
I will look at the exup valve but have rode the bike with a closed stuck valve when I first bought the bike ,and the bike feels much better than then.
Re: 4 degree ignition advancer are their worth fitting? - unfazed - 18-09-16
Check the TPS also
Re: 4 degree ignition advancer are their worth fitting? - Timbo - 19-09-16
Ricky
The Fazer should go like sheeet of a shovel.
As others have mentioned I think you are running too high a gear, peak power is 8000rpm +. Try keeping a gear to match your speed and maintain 6000 to 8000rpm. Then you always be just under the power band and "ready to go". Fuel consumption will not suffer for it, I have ridden mine that way on both my Fazers and I regularly get 45mpg, if not more. I might use 6th gear on the motorways but the rest of the time on national speed limit back roads I'll use 4th and no more. Rarely 5th unless the road really straightens out.
Try it!
Bw
Re: 4 degree ignition advancer are their worth fitting? - Mick-H - 19-09-16
What size sprockets are you running.
If I'm doing 60 in top it'll pick up and overtake with no problem at all, admitted if I knock it down to 4th before the overtake then it is much much faster but I usually find that 6th will do the job.
Re: 4 degree ignition advancer are their worth fitting? - BBROWN1664 - 19-09-16
I suspect Ricky is expecting to ride the FZS1000 as if it were a sports bike and in the intervening months since he rode the GSXR has forgotten that he would normally only be in 4th gear at the same speed and so did pick up a bit quicker than the FZS when in 6th. This is probably because the FZS is far more refined and encourages a more refined way of riding then the hooligan GSXR did.
Re: 4 degree ignition advancer are their worth fitting? - Ricky - 19-09-16
The rear sprocket is a 44, not sure about the front, 6th gear is 4000rpm 60mph.
I am hoping to look at the exup valve on Wednesday.
The bike has a K&N filter and a slipon exhaust, the needles are stock but don't know if the jets have been changed, could this be a symptom of low power when opening the throttle?
Re: 4 degree ignition advancer are their worth fitting? - Ricky - 20-09-16
Just checked the EXUP valve, the cables where completely lose, the vale was not moving at all.Using Pat page as a guide I have tried to tighten the cables but when set at about 1.5 mm of play I get the 7000rpm fault code, so I loosen the cables and I can not get the fork shape to line up with the hole, it is close ,the fork is just before the hole. How close can you get to lining it up?
All so when you turn the bike off, the fork is at 10 o'clock and the hole is at 9 o'clock is this right, and when I rev the bike the valve does not seem to move much.
Re: 4 degree ignition advancer are their worth fitting? - unfazed - 20-09-16
If you turn the ignition off with the kill switch, it will reset to the default position, (this is the time to check its position)
If your turn it off with the ignition switch it will not reset until you turn it back on.
A common mistake is to turn the engine off with the key and try to reset the exup.
When you are setting the exup.
1. Turn the ignition on (do not start the engine) wait 5 to 10 secs, turn it off again.
2. Not set your EXUP.
3. When you think you have it set correctly, start the bike, let it tick over, turn it off with the kill switch, you will hear the servo whirring under the tank and now check the setting again.
If it is not correct turn off the ignition and readjust it and go back to 3 again
Re: 4 degree ignition advancer are their worth fitting? - Millietant - 20-09-16
The problem might still be more than just an EXUP valve issue.
The GSXR 750 should be a gutless wheezer at 60mph in high gears compared to your Fazer. I've ridden my brothers GSXR 750 immediately after our '01 Fazer and I have to rev it far higher and keep changing down gears to get anything like the overtaking power of the Fazer at 50-70 mph.
The one thing I love about the Fazer is the way it pulls from even 40 mph in top gear if you want it too. My Aprillia RSV Mille doesn't have the same low down pull as the Fazer, but even at 6000rpm it feels like it's running at 3000 rpm in comparison to an inline 4, so it actually "feels" like it has good low down power.
Mind you, at those lower speeds, my '89 FJ 1200 pulls far better than even the Fazer, in top gear.
Re: 4 degree ignition advancer are their worth fitting? - Ricky - 21-09-16
Been out on the bike, what a difference, much better power, it picks up very well.
I want to see the mackanic who served the bike 5 months ago and he looked at the EXOP valve and he says the cables are to tight,but the way he sets up the valve is different to pats page,I now wounder if the EXUP was set up right from the start.
I have slackened the cables a bit, but no mater what I do I can not line up the fork with the hole when you kill the engine with the kill switch, it is close. Does it have to be spot on ,or will close do? If no how do I get it spot on.
Re: 4 degree ignition advancer are their worth fitting? - unfazed - 21-09-16
You shorten one cable and lenghten the other to get the valve to rotate to the correct position.
Take up all the slack on one cable with the adjuster and add slack with the other adjuster.
For example if you need to rotate the fork down adjust the slack out of the cable by screwing out the adjuster on the lower cable then screw in the adjuster in the other cable until you have 1.5mm slack back in the system. After each adjustment start the engine let it Idle and then turn off the engine with the kill switch to check it.
A fiddly job but persevere :thumbup