Fully synthetic or part synthetic?

Fully synthetic or part synthetic? - Printable Version

+- Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial (https://foc-u.co.uk/mybb)
+-- Forum: Bikes, Hints'n'Tips (https://foc-u.co.uk/mybb/forumdisplay.php?fid=66)
+--- Forum: Fazer 1000/FZ1 corner (https://foc-u.co.uk/mybb/forumdisplay.php?fid=75)
+--- Thread: Fully synthetic or part synthetic? (/showthread.php?tid=75556)

Pages: 1 2

Fully synthetic or part synthetic? - jerbear - 01-05-16

Hi,
I have a Gen 2 Fazer on an 07 plate with 5000 miles.
It's due an oil change but can't decide after research on here and other sites which to use.
I will be doing around 5000 miles per annum and not bothered about the extra cost of a fully synthetic. Read a bit about poss clutch problems with using a fully synthetic?
Any body with experience of this.
All help appreciated

Many thanks

Re: Fully synthetic or part synthetic? - misterjayb1 - 01-05-16

Quality bike-specific semi synth 10w40.. Anything else is overkill in my humble opinion..

Re: Fully synthetic or part synthetic? - mtread - 01-05-16

Never had any clutch problems with fully synth. I tend to use it if I can get it at a good price, otherwise no hesitation in using semi.

Re: Fully synthetic or part synthetic? - Rob R - 01-05-16

My Gen2 is a 2009 bike with 6000 miles on it. Used Shell Advanced Ultra 4T fully synthetic bike oil at my last oil change. The clutch feels very slightly grabby, but no problems with slippage. I'm not sure that it's worth the extra and will probably go back to semi-synth next service.
Rob

Re: Fully synthetic or part synthetic? - Slaninar - 02-05-16

(01-05-16, 11:42 AM)jerbear link Wrote: Hi,
I have a Gen 2 Fazer on an 07 plate with 5000 miles.
It's due an oil change but can't decide after research on here and other sites which to use.
I will be doing around 5000 miles per annum and not bothered about the extra cost of a fully synthetic. Read a bit about poss clutch problems with using a fully synthetic?
Any body with experience of this.
All help appreciated

Many thanks

Synthetic oil does not cause clutch slippage. Car oil with anti-friction modifiers causes clutch slippage. That or bat clutch.

Fully synthetic bike specific oil is as good as it gets. I see no point in sparing a few euros per whole year in order to get an oil that is less good.

Better cold start, less engine wear, longer change intervals (less hassle with it, even cost savings) - all in favour of the fully synthetic.

Downside is it will show any weak seal - with mineral, or semi synth, even bad seals get gummed up and hold, when you put fully synthetic oil, bad seals will show and you'll have to change them, they will leak.

I'd recommend Motul 7100 10w40 fully synthetic oil. The new (as of 2014 i think) version is JASO MA2 certified - that is as good as it gets for the wet clutch!

Re: Fully synthetic or part synthetic? - PieEater - 02-05-16

I've had no particular reason to differ from the manufacturers recommend semi synthetic. I do make it a habit of changing the oil at least every 4k and of fitting a new OEM filter at the same time. Out of interest I checked what oil the rider of the 200k Gen1 used and it seemed she favoured Mobil 1 synthetic so that may be an endorsement of sorts but again she changed the oil every 4k so it could just as much be down to frequent regular changes. I don't think you'll get a concensus of opinion on this subject wherever you ask, you may as well flip a coin.

Re: Fully synthetic or part synthetic? - Slaninar - 02-05-16

Don't believe anyone actually argues fully synth is the best. Some just argue whether it is worth the money, that is, does semi synth do the job just as well.

Frequent oil changes do no good to engine. Unless doing track days, just stick to the user manual and pour good quality oil.

Re: Fully synthetic or part synthetic? - PieEater - 03-05-16

(02-05-16, 06:02 PM)Slaninar link Wrote: Frequent oil changes do no good to engine.

The manufacturers recommended oil change period is 4000 miles or every 6 months for both generations of the Fazer Thou, I would personally class this as frequent and regular especially given the example that I used of someone covering 200k. If you are saying that Yamaha have got this wrong then perhaps you can take it up with them and let us know how you get on.

Re: Fully synthetic or part synthetic? - Slaninar - 03-05-16

(03-05-16, 09:16 AM)PieEater link Wrote: [quote author=Slaninar link=topic=19992.msg231038#msg231038 date=1462208552]
Frequent oil changes do no good to engine.

Re: Fully synthetic or part synthetic? - PaulSmith - 03-05-16

The difference between dino, semi and fully synthetic oil (other then price) is how long it takes to break down. If you are going to ride around the world without a service, or go 9 years between changes, then fully synth is the only choice. If you are going change the oil and filter every 2 years or 8000 miles (which ever comes first) then semi-synth is ideal for your needs. If you change every year or 5000 miles (which ever comes first), then dino is perfectly good for your needs. It is your bike, so it is your choice.

Re: Fully synthetic or part synthetic? - Slaninar - 03-05-16

I'd still argue that fully synth provides the best engine protection, plus a bit of fuel savings because of lower friction. Nothing much, perhaps around 1%, but enough to make the price difference between dyno and fully synth a non-existent. That's why I'd almost always go for good fully synth oil.

Re: Fully synthetic or part synthetic? - PieEater - 03-05-16

(03-05-16, 04:17 PM)PaulSmith link Wrote: The difference between dino, semi and fully synthetic oil (other then price) is how long it takes to break down. If you are going to ride around the world without a service, or go 9 years between changes, then fully synth is the only choice. If you are going change the oil and filter every 2 years or 8000 miles (which ever comes first) then semi-synth is ideal for your needs. If you change every year or 5000 miles (which ever comes first), then dino is perfectly good for your needs. It is your bike, so it is your choice.

Remind me never to buy a bike from you :eek

Re: Fully synthetic or part synthetic? - PaulSmith - 04-05-16

(03-05-16, 04:43 PM)PieEater link Wrote: Remind me never to buy a bike from you :eek

Care to share your reasons?

You are someone who (I believe) changes their oil a) themselves, and b) at service intervals or more frequently. Yes?
Do you look at the condition of the oil coming out? Not its colour, its condition. Do you look at the state of the filter? If, based on what you have found in the oil, you think your Fazer needs fully-synth, then I hope you wont mind if I decline your kind offer to sell me your otherwise excellent bike. If you choose to use fully-synth, for piece of mind or as a way of 'indulging' your bike then, as I said before, it is your bike and your choice.

Re: Fully synthetic or part synthetic? - Adam2201 - 04-05-16

while we're on the subject of oil, has anyone used Westway Lubricants before?

I found their shop on ebay, they do 5L of MA2 fully synth for £21.99 (£18.99 for 5L semi synth) delivered http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5L-Fully-Synthetic-10W-40-10W40-Motorcycle-Oil-4-Stroke-JASO-MA2-10W-40-/111838862300?hash=item1a0a1d9bdc . They sell fork oil and brake fluid as well.

I've still got a fair bit of Motul left from my last change, but might give them a try next time.

Re: Fully synthetic or part synthetic? - Dave48 - 04-05-16

(04-05-16, 02:55 PM)Adam2201 link Wrote: while we're on the subject of oil, has anyone used Westway Lubricants before?

I found their shop on ebay, they do 5L of MA2 fully synth for £21.99 (£18.99 for 5L semi synth) delivered http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5L-Fully-Synthetic-10W-40-10W40-Motorcycle-Oil-4-Stroke-JASO-MA2-10W-40-/111838862300?hash=item1a0a1d9bdc . They sell fork oil and brake fluid as well.

I've still got a fair bit of Motul left from my last change, but might give them a try next time.

Thanks for this info. Have been looking for a supplier of fully synthetic car oil-all their prices are competitive and a lot cheaper than some "brands". At the end of the day its the specification that matters-not the pretty packaging!

Re: Fully synthetic or part synthetic? - PieEater - 04-05-16

(04-05-16, 10:36 AM)PaulSmith link Wrote: [quote author=PieEater link=topic=19992.msg231126#msg231126 date=1462290223]

Remind me never to buy a bike from you :eek

Care to share your reasons?
[/quote]

(03-05-16, 09:16 AM)PieEater link Wrote: The manufacturers recommended oil change period is 4000 miles or every 6 months for both generations of the Fazer Thou

(03-05-16, 04:17 PM)PaulSmith link Wrote: If you are going change the oil and filter every 2 years or 8000 miles (which ever comes first) then semi-synth is ideal for your needs.

Re: Fully synthetic or part synthetic? - PaulSmith - 05-05-16

(04-05-16, 07:47 PM)PieEater link Wrote: ...

I am aware of the manufacturers recommendations. I am also aware of the quality of petrol that I use and the conditions that I (and most people on this forum) ride in and how they relate to the worst case conditions that the manufacturers recommendations must deal with. And I have a little knowledge of how oil works and what makes it break down. You yourself have mentioned two extremes of use, the 200k bike and a race/track day bike, and seem to accept that they require different treatment though I am not sure you knew why.

I did not suggest that you ignore the manufacturers recommendations, I suggested that you make an informed decision on the minimum oil quality you need based on your bikes usage, and for that, you have suggested that my bike is not well cared for.

So I ask again, do you know how to check the condition of the oil in your bike/car/bus/van or lawn mower so you can make an informed decision?
[Here is a hint, try googling 'oil blob tests'. They are not exactly difficult.]

Re: Fully synthetic or part synthetic? - Slaninar - 05-05-16

DIY oil test:

http://themotoroilevaluator.com/members-blog/poor-mans-oil-analysis/#axzz47mBfgFga

Re: Fully synthetic or part synthetic? - PieEater - 05-05-16

(05-05-16, 11:17 AM)PaulSmith link Wrote: .....

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. You gave specific example mileages for specific oil types all of which well exceed the manufacturers recommendations. You justify skipping up to 3 out of 4 oil changes (once every 2 years) on the basis that you know how to check the quality of used oil and so you are happy to use your judgement as to when it needs changing. I'm more interested in prolonging the life of my bike than the life of the oil that's in it, so I'll stick to the recommended intervals and the recommended oil.

The question as to how well your bike is cared for only came up after you indicated that you don't follow Yamaha's guidance on oil changes, so as far as I'm concerned that ball is in your court. However I haven't meant to offend you in any way so I apologise if that has been the case.

The post where I compared "two extremes of use, the 200k bike and a race/track day bike" doesn't exist, it's not exactly fair to question my intelligence on something I didn't say.

Like I said in my first post there is little consensus to be found on this topic ..............

Re: Fully synthetic or part synthetic? - PaulSmith - 06-05-16

(02-05-16, 05:31 PM)PieEater link Wrote: I've had no particular reason to differ from the manufacturers recommend semi synthetic.

Good for you, but the original owner of the bike in question would have had to change oil every 278 miles or less (18 changes in nine years) to met those recommendations. I did not 'justify' skipping changes, I offered advice that might be useful to those not in a position to follow the official recommendations.
You on the other hand would appear to be saying that if you follow the rules, you can avoid having to think. For your information, I check the quality and condition of my oil roughly every 1000 miles, and while I have never had a problem on the Fazer, these tests have detected gasket and piston ring failures in other engines early enough to save me a shit load of cash.

(02-05-16, 05:31 PM)PieEater link Wrote: ...Out of interest I checked what oil the rider of the 200k Gen1 used ...

Good. I didn't imagine it, though it was Slaninar who mentioned the track day.