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Snapped Exhaust studs part II - Printable Version

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Snapped Exhaust studs part II - anutz - 18-05-15

***** WILL AMMEND INITIAL POST AS I CHANGE THINGS OR HAVE QUESTIONS ******

Not any more - updates inline with latest posts, else landing page is a monster in terms of pulling down images...

18/05/2015


So - during the nightmare of my last advneture into snapping my exhaust studs i purchased a spare engine as at one point i never thought i would get the current one back into order....i did....but this thread is now about the spare...

I purchased it with 12,000 miles and 1 snapped engine stud already.....plan was to get the studs removed professionally and replace with stainless steel etc...

Well i managed to get 5 studs out with a campingaz torch, leaves 3 that need drilling out, 2 have snapped flush, one has snapped arkward but that was already done...

Point of the thread is just to document what it turns out like and show some pics of the engine for bits people may not have seen  Smile

Also any advice and comments good or bad, welcome....

Here it is - little dirty...

[Image: IMG_0270_zpsuujca66q.jpg]

Made sure to make notes of current timing chain alignement - did not do that on my current engine!

Note the back marks - and also Cylinder 1 is at TDC on the Compression stroke - cams face outwards as opposed to inwards

[Image: IMG_0279_zpscdkaliww.jpg]

Head off...

[Image: IMG_0282_zps52ocrus1.jpg]

When i tapped away the Cylinder Head, i distubed the Cylinder, oil leaked out....as can be seen here!

[Image: IMG_0283_zpsqgdkspio.jpg]

So decided to remove the oil delivery pipe and coolant hoses and to remove the cylinders as well.....

[Image: IMG_0284_zpsymy6vcvr.jpg]

Timing chain...and intake side guide.....

[Image: IMG_0288_zpsakpiellw.jpg]

more...

[Image: IMG_0289_zps99v47za7.jpg]

And the cylinders....

[Image: IMG_0292_zpsoj2fy471.jpg]

Off to the engine shop tommorow to leave the head there, once the 3 studs are removed i shall be fitting a stainless steel set  Smile

[Image: IMG_0295_zpsjb8zeqlq.jpg]

QUESTIONS

Why so much deposits on the pistons.....????

19/05/2015

Head at engine shop - 2 studs snapped flush, and one was already hacked off, 4th one although removed, might be some issue with the thread so most likely 3-4 repairs - should be within a week...

Looking at these for replacment studs: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stainless-Exhaust-Stud-Set-for-Yamaha-FZS600-Fazer-1998-2003-/331542724598?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d317c7ff6

Unless i can find a Dome Nut variant - will just put my own dome nuts over the top of these...


20/05/2015

So got some deposits off the pistons....stubborn stuff left, used a bit of brake part cleaner i had left and a cloth...

[Image: IMG_0333_zpsib4siga9.jpg]

Pic of the state of the cylinders bores....

[Image: IMG_0332_zps8kkqgidh.jpg]

24/05/2015

Starting to clean things a little more now with some natural degreaser, safe around rubbers etc and plastics not too abrasive

Cooling pipes came off ok, no issues there, there is some rust on the end of the pipe i may try to remove...

[Image: 25B9C3B8-F617-43DB-AB55-B885F8EFABEF_zpsvfis7u6w.jpg]

[Image: 25B121F8-F31F-4239-A79D-F88F9E3D42F0_zpsdrztcnxn.jpg]

Degreaser seems ok as well : http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006ZZ4AHS?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

[Image: 2241236B-2F45-4D02-83A2-43A51F07AA94_zpswnhtktei.jpg]

Also noted these spark plugs, double electrode type as opposed to what i am used to seeing based on my current installed engine...

[Image: 930943EC-DA6C-4F43-B1AD-3E1A91848933_zpsi6xw7bqa.jpg]

Is it a good or bad thing to have this type verusus the single electrode????

25/05/2015

The bores after  alittle wipe down....

[Image: 87E1BCEA-DDAB-4C88-B322-53AE43FEEF23_zpszxdyi4bn.jpg]

[Image: E4588701-B72F-4E69-860A-0A3B3E891975_zpsmv24qkoz.jpg]


[Image: 358FCFD1-F4F2-447C-84E7-8C422A18AAC8_zpsidnisii5.jpg]

26/05/2015

[Image: 8C3410F9-7784-4568-ADE9-BF5D14C2494A_zpsslebggm8.jpg]

Valve compressing kit arrived - looks ok and feels strong enough....shall post some pics when i mess around with the spare head i have...

Re: Snapped Exhaust studs part II - sinto607276 - 18-05-15

Wow, you've been a busy bee anutz Smile
There's some mechanics not done as much in 3 years as you've done in 3 weeks, well done fella, keep up the good work :thumbup

Re: Snapped Exhaust studs part II - anutz - 18-05-15

....and to think it all started with wanting to get some rust off my downpipes a few months ago.....now i am dismantling a spare engine  :lol

Re: Snapped Exhaust studs part II - sinto607276 - 18-05-15

(18-05-15, 09:36 PM)anutz link Wrote: ....and to think it all started with wanting to get some rust off my downpipes a few months ago.....now i am dismantling a spare engine  :lol
:lol yeah, "I'll just do this" syndrome :lol

Re: Snapped Exhaust studs part II - maxzer1500 - 19-05-15

Sorry Anutz, you did ask about the deposits, find it hard to believe that engine has only done 12000 miles. It's the oiliness, unless someone has put oil down the plug holes, but it's not even clean oil.

Re: Snapped Exhaust studs part II - Jules-C - 19-05-15

(18-05-15, 08:42 PM)anutz link Wrote: Why so much deposits on the pistons.....????

Most likely the engine was from a bike not used much and spent the last 6 months or year of its life only bing started every couple of weeks for a couple of minutes and never run up to proper temperature or under any load.

Re: Snapped Exhaust studs part II - anutz - 19-05-15

(19-05-15, 07:48 AM)maxzer1500 link Wrote: Sorry Anutz, you did ask about the deposits, find it hard to believe that engine has only done 12000 miles. It's the oiliness, unless someone has put oil down the plug holes, but it's not even clean oil.

not going to disagree, don't have the experience to comment on how it should look...but hopefully will get it all running nicely, it is however a little mucky!!!

Just thinking about the "oiliness" - there was LOTS of oil in the head bolt holes and so when i lifted the head off lots of oil ran every where.....anyway...lets see what happens

Also its dirty oil....as well....

Re: Snapped Exhaust studs part II - Jules-C - 19-05-15

I was assuming the oil was due to the dismantling process.

Re: Snapped Exhaust studs part II - Fazerider - 20-05-15

Have a close look at the pistons and rings.
If there are signs of blow-by down the sides of one of them it might explain the state of all of the piston tops… excessive leakage pressurises the crankcases and more oil mist blows out of the breather into the air box.

Re: Snapped Exhaust studs part II - anutz - 20-05-15

(20-05-15, 05:28 PM)Fazerider link Wrote: Have a close look at the pistons and rings.
If there are signs of blow-by down the sides of one of them it might explain the state of all of the piston tops… excessive leakage pressurises the crankcases and more oil mist blows out of the breather into the air box.

thanks will take a closer look and get some pics of the insides of the cylinders - i am not sure if there is a mark on one of them!

Re: Snapped Exhaust studs part II - maxzer1500 - 20-05-15

(20-05-15, 08:00 PM)anutz link Wrote: [quote author=Fazerider link=topic=17020.msg196415#msg196415 date=1432139280]
Have a close look at the pistons and rings.
If there are signs of blow-by down the sides of one of them it might explain the state of all of the piston tops… excessive leakage pressurises the crankcases and more oil mist blows out of the breather into the air box.

thanks will take a closer look and get some pics of the insides of the cylinders - i am not sure if there is a mark on one of them!
[/quote]
    It's probably not worth checking ring gaps and if the oil was spilt removing the head shouldn't be too much to worry about. If it was mine while apart i would be tempted to lightly go over the bores with scotchbrite, would be like a light hone. And replace the valve stem oil seals, pattern probably ok. There was an issue with some Yamahas that came with fully synthetic oil and it didn't do much good for running in purposes with the lead on effect of oil burning. I was lucky with my thou as from using a pint every 1000 miles it now uses nearly nothing, i suspected the previous owner used fully synthetic so just changing to semi seemed to sort it.

Re: Snapped Exhaust studs part II - anutz - 20-05-15

OK so posted a pic on the intial post of the state they pistons are in after a little clean.....better....

In the past i have caused issues when cleaning things TOO much, my brake caliper pistons being one example, took some of  their chrome finish..

might less be more here - the main rubbish is off, could what is left affect the engine?

Also a strange query when storing this as it is now in the garage, i am going to stick some cling file over the cylinders and onto the block, any other suggestions or anyone else who has an open engine lying around  :lol

Re: Snapped Exhaust studs part II - anutz - 20-05-15

regards the oil seals, i have an old nackered cylinder head so its something i can look at messing with on that first i.e. how to take the valves apart.....so will look into that and the tools needed...

Re: Snapped Exhaust studs part II - maxzer1500 - 20-05-15

The brake pistons are a different matter and simpler to re-do, for a start its metal to rubber. The skill needed to do the valve seals is less than you have already been doing, when i used to work on engines the only thing that held me back doing valves was finding a suitable spring compresser, the main thing is don't mix the valves up.

Re: Snapped Exhaust studs part II - anutz - 20-05-15

ok cool  Smile

So found this....i COULD try make one but from experience if i need the tools now and they are not an arm and a leg i buy them...

http://yambits.co.uk/fzs600-fazer-valve-spring-compressor-p-35873.html

Similar looking on one fleabay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/231406828878?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&chn=ps&device=c&rlsatarget=&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108

Re: Snapped Exhaust studs part II - maxzer1500 - 20-05-15

Don't see why the cheaper would not do the job and you might never use it again. Practice on the other head by all means, also don't mix the collets either and when it's back together a light tap with a plastic faced hammer on the end of the valve tip ensures the collet is properly seated. The piston deposits i would carefully remove without removing any metal and is that carbon on the edge of one of the rings, rings need to not be tight in the groove. Keep everything as clean as possible, i would use clean lint free rag to fill/cover holes and lay something like an old towel over the whole thing, clingfilm sounds a good idea as long as it don't encourage condensation.

Re: Snapped Exhaust studs part II - anutz - 20-05-15

went for the ebay one -  seem identical, even the moudling for the case looks the same, but the top right has 2 more valve sizes.....so will see what i end up with!

Will throw some old towels over the components for now, i think when i had my other head off and the engine was in the frame there was some condensate....so towels it is...

Have lots of these for storing stuff : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/32-x-100ml-Mini-Storage-Boxes-Plastic-Container-Kitchen-Small-Food-/191481992811?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2c9537566b


Re: Snapped Exhaust studs part II - anutz - 24-05-15

So moving it on a tab, mostly cleaning still, will get the cylinder head back soon and then its gasket time..

But see my last few pics, is the spark any reason it would cause the build up of deposits....


Re: Snapped Exhaust studs part II - maxzer1500 - 24-05-15

Would use a standard spark plug. Remove all carbon with a plastic scraper, you don't want scratches on piston crown or combustion chamber. Don't like the look of that bore, is making me wonder about the rings now.

Re: Snapped Exhaust studs part II - anutz - 24-05-15

for my benefit....

bore = inside of cylinder, what can you see that alarms you?

i will get some pics of the rings....

this engine is not needed for anyhting right now and won't be really until i decide to swap it in..

so plenty of time to do what needs to be done