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+--- Thread: 1 down 5 up (/showthread.php?tid=72113)
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1 down 5 up - fazersharp - 09-04-15
So why is that then, I know some (i think ) are 1 up 5 down, but why are the gears not all up or all down, is it some sort of throwback from the early engines that has for no reason just carried on to today
Re: 1 down 5 up - HarryHornby - 09-04-15
I would say it's so you can be sure of getting first first time every time. Let's face it once we're past 2nd it's often hard to know what gear we are in, so kicking down to first means we know where it is.
Re: 1 down 5 up - Fazerider - 09-04-15
There is a neutral position for the selector drum between every adjacent gear (obviously one gear has to disengage before the next engages). They can make it available by putting a detent at a halfway position, thus a full movement of the gear lever will go past the neutral and a gentle nudge will let it settle at the mid position.
You could have a drum designed for a halfway detent below first, but the danger is that you'd change down for a tight bend having misjudged which gear you're in and get neutral rather than first.
Re: 1 down 5 up - fazersharp - 09-04-15
(09-04-15, 09:46 AM)Fazerider link Wrote: There is a neutral position for the selector drum between every adjacent gear (obviously one gear has to disengage before the next engages). They can make it available by putting a detent at a halfway position, thus a full movement of the gear lever will go past the neutral and a gentle nudge will let it settle at the mid position.I knew some one would give a explanation that I didn't quite understand- thanks anyway :lol
You could have a drum designed for a halfway detent below first, but the danger is that you'd change down for a tight bend having misjudged which gear you're in and get neutral rather than first.
Re: 1 down 5 up - fazersharp - 09-04-15
(09-04-15, 09:25 AM)HarryHornby link Wrote: I would say it's so you can be sure of getting first first time every time. Let's face it once we're past 2nd it's often hard to know what gear we are in, so kicking down to first means we know where it is.
It would still be easy to get 1st wouldnt it as it would just be all the way to the top or bottom
Re: 1 down 5 up - ChristoT - 09-04-15
(09-04-15, 10:28 AM)fazersharp link Wrote: [quote author=HarryHornby link=topic=16536.msg190483#msg190483 date=1428567927]
I would say it's so you can be sure of getting first first time every time. Let's face it once we're past 2nd it's often hard to know what gear we are in, so kicking down to first means we know where it is.
It would still be easy to get 1st wouldnt it as it would just be all the way to the top or bottom
[/quote]
Let's say you're hooning it - very tight corner, down to first. And either double tap, or shift twice. Suddenly, you're freewheeling round the corner. Not good. Similarly, if you're on the motorway, and reach for "7th". and you find yourself in neutral? Again, no good.
And the reason to put it between 1st and 2nd is that you almost pull away in first, and nearly always stop in either 2nd or 1st. It's a convenient place for it to be.
Re: 1 down 5 up - nick crisp - 09-04-15
Kawasaki's H2 triples were 1 up, 4 down. Horrible gearboxes, but no idea if that had anything to do with it. I didn't really notice any problems I'd associate with the gear pattern for sure.
Re: 1 down 5 up - fazersharp - 09-04-15
Quote:if you're on the motorway, and reach for "7th". and you find yourself in neutral?
No you wouldnt as neutral would be next to 1st which is at the other end, going for 7th would be just like it is now-- a dead end
Quote:Let's say you're hooning it - very tight corner, down to first
There is no corner in the world that I would need to go from hooning to 1st, maybe a 2nd but not 1st
Re: 1 down 5 up - bigralphie - 09-04-15
Race shift is opposite too ,you can normally change it with rearsets
Re: 1 down 5 up - bigralphie - 09-04-15
There is no corner in the world that I would need to go from hooning to 1st
Umm 3rd to 1st on the Alps uphill switchbacks ,even mine wont climb in 2nd
Re: 1 down 5 up - ChristoT - 09-04-15
(09-04-15, 12:05 PM)bigralphie link Wrote: There is no corner in the world that I would need to go from hooning to 1st
Umm 3rd to 1st on the Alps uphill switchbacks ,even mine wont climb in 2nd
My point exactly.
(09-04-15, 12:00 PM)fazersharp link Wrote:Quote:if you're on the motorway, and reach for "7th". and you find yourself in neutral?
No you wouldnt as neutral would be next to 1st which is at the other end, going for 7th would be just like it is now-- a dead end
Just responding to the "what if neutral was at the top of the box" question.
Bigralphie is right, race gearboxes are 1 up, 5 (or however many) down. This is to make it easier to change up a gear coming out of corners. (You just tap your foot, rather than trying to get it under the shifter)
Re: 1 down 5 up - JoeRock - 09-04-15
(09-04-15, 10:28 AM)fazersharp link Wrote: [quote author=HarryHornby link=topic=16536.msg190483#msg190483 date=1428567927]
I would say it's so you can be sure of getting first first time every time. Let's face it once we're past 2nd it's often hard to know what gear we are in, so kicking down to first means we know where it is.
It would still be easy to get 1st wouldnt it as it would just be all the way to the top or bottom
[/quote]
Well no - 1st IS currently at the bottom?
Re: 1 down 5 up - darrsi - 09-04-15
(09-04-15, 10:26 AM)fazersharp link Wrote: [quote author=Fazerider link=topic=16536.msg190486#msg190486 date=1428569189]I knew some one would give a explanation that I didn't quite understand- thanks anyway :lol
There is a neutral position for the selector drum between every adjacent gear (obviously one gear has to disengage before the next engages). They can make it available by putting a detent at a halfway position, thus a full movement of the gear lever will go past the neutral and a gentle nudge will let it settle at the mid position.
You could have a drum designed for a halfway detent below first, but the danger is that you'd change down for a tight bend having misjudged which gear you're in and get neutral rather than first.
[/quote]
:rollin :rollin :rollin
Re: 1 down 5 up - fazersharp - 09-04-15
(09-04-15, 12:05 PM)bigralphie link Wrote: There is no corner in the world that I would need to go from hooning to 1st
Umm 3rd to 1st on the Alps uphill switchbacks ,even mine wont climb in 2nd
There is no corner in the world this country (not a track) that I would need to go from hooning to 1st
---------------- go on then
Re: 1 down 5 up - bigralphie - 09-04-15
Last corner of the Hartside cafe road (A686) 100mph to 10mph :lol
Re: 1 down 5 up - fazersharp - 09-04-15
10mph would still be 2nd, there's just too much engine braking in 1st - talking FZS 600 here.
Re: 1 down 5 up - Mick-H - 09-04-15
(09-04-15, 10:28 AM)fazersharp link Wrote: [quote author=HarryHornby link=topic=16536.msg190483#msg190483 date=1428567927]
I would say it's so you can be sure of getting first first time every time. Let's face it once we're past 2nd it's often hard to know what gear we are in, so kicking down to first means we know where it is.
It would still be easy to get 1st wouldnt it as it would just be all the way to the top or bottom
[/quote]
Nope because neutral would be below 1st
Re: 1 down 5 up - ChristoT - 09-04-15
(09-04-15, 04:56 PM)fazersharp link Wrote: 10mph would still be 2nd, there's just too much engine braking in 1st - talking FZS 600 here.
On particularly fast hoons, coming up to very tight hairpins, I've used 1st to get round the corner, then 2nd to power out.
That was on a 33hp Fazer though, I'm used to playing the gearbox like a piano, and keeping the revs high to milk out every single pony possible.
Re: 1 down 5 up - fazersharp - 09-04-15
I will take no riding lessons from you sir !
Re: 1 down 5 up - unfazed - 09-04-15
(09-04-15, 05:22 PM)fazersharp link Wrote: I will take no riding lessons from you sir !:rollin :rollin :rollin