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+--- Thread: [Resolved] [Technical] 'Soft' front brakes (/showthread.php?tid=70918)
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[Resolved] [Technical] 'Soft' front brakes - helloindustries - 17-11-14
Recently had a banjo fitting replaced due to a small leak. Brakes were bled, but now feel much less effective than before.
Granted; They were never at 100% as the rotors were bent before i got it. They were straightened out, which sorted as much deformation in the discs as possible, and the brakes were good enough.
All i can think of is that they might need re-bleeding.
Thoughts?
-
Resolved
Leak on right side due to worn washers.
Now replaced, re-bled at all points and back to where they were (which wasn't 100%, and wont be unless i buy new discs).
Re: [Technical] 'Soft' front brakes - darrsi - 17-11-14
Always thought discs were way too thin to be "straightened"?
Any warping of a disc will keep pushing your pads apart so your initial grab at the lever would feel unresponsive.
Other than that it can take a few goes at bleeding before getting them sharp.
Re: [Technical] 'Soft' front brakes - helloindustries - 17-11-14
(17-11-14, 06:27 PM)darrsi link Wrote: Always thought discs were way too thin to be "straightened"?
Any warping of a disc will keep pushing your pads apart so your initial grab at the lever would feel unresponsive.
Other than that it can take a few goes at bleeding before getting them sharp.
Initially; I thought the discs were bent when i got the bike, turned out to be bent rotors, which i had straightened.
- Initially; I had the standard brake hoses, and the brakes were OK-ish.
- Then i got the hoses upgraded to braided and the brakes were crap.
- Investigation found the warped rotors, which were then fixed and the brakes were much better.
- Then i had a line leak on the left side so had to have the banjo replaced
- Now my brakes feel soft.
Re: [Technical] 'Soft' front brakes - darrsi - 17-11-14
Personally, if i wanted to keep a low budget then i'd consider 2nd hand original discs.
Re: [Technical] 'Soft' front brakes - Tefer - 17-11-14
You can get brand new Ferodo discs for £108 each from M&P.
Re: [Technical] 'Soft' front brakes - helloindustries - 17-11-14
(17-11-14, 10:15 PM)darrsi link Wrote: Personally, if i wanted to keep a low budget then i'd consider 2nd hand original discs.
The discs seem pretty straight, well under 1mm of wobble. And then there's no guarantee that 2nd hand discs are any straighter.
(17-11-14, 10:17 PM)Tefer link Wrote: You can get brand new Ferodo discs for £108 each from M&P.
And this is why i don't want to spend on new discs.
Re: [Technical] 'Soft' front brakes - darrsi - 17-11-14
Kind of chancy 2nd hand, but if you buy from a breakers they will change them if they're not right.
I've bought them once before and they were fine.
Originals are definitely better to take a chance with though, and it is possible to get ones with lowish mileage on that will last you a good while.
Unfortunately new ones aren't cheap, same as the rear shock too.
Just need to keep an eye out for the bargains, they are out there if you persevere.
Regulars on here will know i had major problems years ago with juddering up front, and i replaced nearly everything, and my last final option was to change my braided brake lines and it turned out that they were the culprit. :\
Still reckon that if you keep bleeding your brakes then it will improve things though.
Re: [Technical] 'Soft' front brakes - Tefer - 17-11-14
(17-11-14, 10:18 PM)helloindustries link Wrote: [quote author=darrsi link=topic=15322.msg174148#msg174148 date=1416258917]
Personally, if i wanted to keep a low budget then i'd consider 2nd hand original discs.
The discs seem pretty straight, well under 1mm of wobble. And then there's no guarantee that 2nd hand discs are any straighter.
(17-11-14, 10:17 PM)Tefer link Wrote: You can get brand new Ferodo discs for £108 each from M&P.
And this is why i don't want to spend on new discs.
Brakes are important and that's quite cheap as new OEM ones are about £200 each. Brakes and Tyres i would not scrimp on.
I know what you mean though, not easy.
[/quote]
Re: [Technical] 'Soft' front brakes - helloindustries - 17-11-14
Well, i'll see how i get on with bleeding, and work outwards from there, i guess.
Re: [Technical] 'Soft' front brakes - helloindustries - 17-11-14
Out of interest: What should the thickness of the front brake discs be, anyway?
Re: [Technical] 'Soft' front brakes - darrsi - 18-11-14
(17-11-14, 11:20 PM)helloindustries link Wrote: Out of interest: What should the thickness of the front brake discs be, anyway?
Don't quote me, but from memory 4.5mm is the limit, but with a 5mm disc.
The pads should do all the work.
I have 6mm discs on mine so "should" be good for a long time.
Saying that, i used HH sintered pads on a new rear EBC Pro-Lite disc and the pads ate it like it was made of cheese. Admittedly i was using the rear more because of my front juddering. Even still i expected better than that.
Re: [Technical] 'Soft' front brakes - darrsi - 18-11-14
Take off your front lever and clean and grease EVERYTHING, it can help too.
Re: [Technical] 'Soft' front brakes - helloindustries - 18-11-14
(18-11-14, 12:13 AM)darrsi link Wrote: Take off your front lever and clean and grease EVERYTHING, it can help too.
Good idea.
Re: [Technical] 'Soft' front brakes - darrsi - 18-11-14
Another overlooked simple improvement is clean and oil under the pivot of the rear brake pedal.
Crud builds up due to shite weather, but once cleaned and maintained regularly can make the rear feel very snappy, and it takes seconds to do.
Re: [Technical] 'Soft' front brakes - helloindustries - 18-11-14
(18-11-14, 12:18 AM)darrsi link Wrote: Another overlooked simple improvement is clean and oil under the pivot of the rear brake pedal.
Crud builds up due to shite weather, but once cleaned and maintained regularly can make the rear feel very snappy, and it takes seconds to do.
Rear is plenty snappy!
Noticed as much with all the extra rear braking i'm having to do to compensate for the lacking front.
Re: [Technical] 'Soft' front brakes - darrsi - 18-11-14
(18-11-14, 12:20 AM)helloindustries link Wrote: [quote author=darrsi link=topic=15322.msg174167#msg174167 date=1416266335]
Another overlooked simple improvement is clean and oil under the pivot of the rear brake pedal.
Crud builds up due to shite weather, but once cleaned and maintained regularly can make the rear feel very snappy, and it takes seconds to do.
Rear is plenty snappy!
Noticed as much with all the extra rear braking i'm having to do to compensate for the lacking front.
[/quote]
Clean the pivot anyway on a regular basis, you will notice the difference.
I either use brake cleaner, or WD40, then a bit of 3-in-1 oil, about once a month.
Re: [Technical] 'Soft' front brakes - darrsi - 18-11-14
Brake disc wear limit should be stamped on them somewhere by the way.
Re: [Technical] 'Soft' front brakes - ste131 - 18-11-14
Have you tried back bleeding? Sometimes you get a small pocket of air in master cylinder banjo. Take top off and start flicking lever and move steering to full left. Don't forget cloth around reservoir in case it spits back. Sometimes works wonders
Re: [Technical] 'Soft' front brakes - darrsi - 18-11-14
Another trick you can try is loosen the master cylinder cap then tying your brake lever back and leaving it over night with the bike on the centre stand.
You don't wanna spill that shit so put plenty of rags around it just in case.
It forces the bubbles upwards. I've done it many times before to give the brakes that final boost, it normally works very well.
Re: [Technical] 'Soft' front brakes - helloindustries - 19-11-14
I had the front brakes bled at both ends today, no air that we could see, but the brakes feel a bit better.