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+--- Thread: Clutch Slip on new clutch :( (/showthread.php?tid=68118)
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Clutch Slip on new clutch :( - philshaq - 08-04-14
Hi guys,
I installed a set of new EBC clutch plates last weekend, first proper ride out on the bike today and its slipping quite a bit under load. One of the steel plates had a little bluing on but nothing major.
The cable is adjusted to the correct tension at the lever 1cm of slack movement. And it bites and feels really positive on initial engagement but it slips like a b**ch at 5k and again at 9k.
Any ideas?
Thanks in advance.
Re: Clutch Slip on new clutch :( - noggythenog - 08-04-14
Hey phil, ill get flamed for even saying this...& ye im only really regurgitating stuff ive heard...im no mechanic.......but did you do an oil change and refill with fully synthetic by any chance????.......or car oil????....or is it semi synth 10w40 as oer normal?.
I mean chances are youve changed the clutch so must be something to do with that really but just checking the outside answer.
Re: Clutch Slip on new clutch :( - philshaq - 08-04-14
Its fully synth 10w40... from memory, I'll have to check when I get home.
Have I done something really obviously wrong?!!
Re: Clutch Slip on new clutch :( - noggythenog - 08-04-14
(08-04-14, 12:10 PM)philshaq link Wrote: Its fully synth 10w40... from memory, I'll have to check when I get home.
Have I done something really obviously wrong?!!
Well like i say i'll get flamed for even mentioning it....but i do notice posts over the years with similar circumstances whereby fully synth in these engines "could" cause slipping.....most of us use semi synth......actually there was a post where a guy basically stripped his whole bike just coz he wouldnt even consider the theory that fully synth would cause slipping....& it is a hot topic with equal supporters on both sides........i dont think it'll do any damage....wait see if theres any more suggestions re the clutch....im just saying if it was me id drain the oil thoroughly & put in 10w40 semi synth...even halfirds own if you've alreadys spent a load...i used it this time & no niticeable difference with performance.
Right im turning my back right now....prepare the flames....make it quick :b
Re: Clutch Slip on new clutch :( - noggythenog - 08-04-14
Looking up the subject online is also a minefield........everyone says dont use car oil.....it has additives that bike engines dont like.....lots of car oil is fully synth...so some folk reckon it is a myth that fully synth bike oil is bad.....just car fully synth in a bike.......& it isnt the case for all bikes....i think the fz1 uses fully synth motorcycle oil.
But just saying it isnt the first time ive heard a 600 owner saying this after an oil change.
Re: Clutch Slip on new clutch :( - Fazerider - 08-04-14
Are you still using the original clutch springs? I reckon the OE ones are a bit marginal... once they've been in there for a decade they lose enough strength that slip is inevitable. Be careful when buying aftermarket ones, some labelled 'heavy duty" are about twice the strength, that puts the clutch basket at risk as well as requiring hands like a gorilla to squeeze the lever.
Re: Clutch Slip on new clutch :( - philshaq - 08-04-14
well... It would ring true with the issues being seen on the last clutch not long after an oil change (from a rather hazy memory, it was a while ago though).
I'll check the oil when I get home tonight and if it is fully synth scream (with a combination of frustration and relief) and report back!
I replaced the springs aswell fazerrider with ones from We-Moto. The originals where a bit shorter and probably done for.
Re: Clutch Slip on new clutch :( - His Dudeness - 08-04-14
Just because you've got 1cm of slack at the lever doesn't mean the cable is adjusted correctly. Try slacking it off a bit at the lever and see if it makes a difference
Re: Clutch Slip on new clutch :( - philshaq - 08-04-14
I'll happily try anything. I just moved it in the car park and it was slipping under partial load at 4k
Is it likely that I'll need to replace the clutch plates as well as the oil if it is down to the oil?
Re: Clutch Slip on new clutch :( - noggythenog - 08-04-14
(08-04-14, 01:05 PM)philshaq link Wrote: I'll happily try anything. I just moved it in the car park and it was slipping under partial load at 4k
Is it likely that I'll need to replace the clutch plates as well as the oil if it is down to the oil?
Was it car oil buddy???...theres no shame...loads o folk use it on various bikes....but if so then id say it is the culprit......if bike oil then not quite so sure.????
Re: Clutch Slip on new clutch :( - NorthWestern - 08-04-14
It wont be the oil. Were the springs oem?
Re: Clutch Slip on new clutch :( - philshaq - 08-04-14
(08-04-14, 01:11 PM)noggythenog link Wrote: [quote author=philshaq link=topic=12510.msg140111#msg140111 date=1396958714]
I'll happily try anything. I just moved it in the car park and it was slipping under partial load at 4k
Is it likely that I'll need to replace the clutch plates as well as the oil if it is down to the oil?
Was it car oil buddy???...theres no shame...loads o folk use it on various bikes....but if so then id say it is the culprit......if bike oil then not quite so sure.????
[/quote]
Hi, no I bought this oil brand;
http://goo.gl/Th2kDg - from a local garage. But can't remember if it was synth or semi. Will have to check when I get home tonight.
Here's a link to the springs;
http://goo.gl/2qj3YN - they are EBC heavy duty ones.
Iwouldn't have thought the springs were the culprit as it was doing it before at around 8-9k under hard acceleration and I've changed everything barring the clutch cable as wemoto sent me the wrong item, but its got loads of life left in the one that's on currently.
It does seem to improve when the engine warms up, but only a bit...
Re: Clutch Slip on new clutch :( - noggythenog - 08-04-14
Ok cool, well ill shut up about oil now....merely observations with no scientific back up.
But if the problem still persists by next oil change time id still give it a try.
Best of luck :thumbup
Re: Clutch Slip on new clutch :( - philshaq - 08-04-14
(08-04-14, 01:22 PM)noggythenog link Wrote: Ok cool, well ill shut up about oil now....merely observations with no scientific back up.
But if the problem still persists by next oil change time id still give it a try.
Best of luck :thumbup
I don't think I can stand to ride it like this until the next oil change! If it turns out to be fully synth I've put in I'll change it to semi to check if there's any difference.
Is there anything else I should be checking as well?
Re: Clutch Slip on new clutch :( - Fazerider - 08-04-14
There's nothing wrong with using fully-synthetic oil in the FZS600, so long as it's suitable. It's just more expensive then the engine needs (though you can stretch the oil change interval). If it says motorcycle oil it should be fine. The oils with friction modifiers (usually molybdenum) are the ones to avoid, they usually brag about fuel economy on the carton.
If you have got moly on the plates, you can supposedly clean them up by dismantling and giving each a good scrub with paraffin.
Other possibilties causing slip are a mistake on assembly or perhaps the adjuster in the sprocket cover being wound in too tight, though I'm not sure how that could happen accidentally.
Re: Clutch Slip on new clutch :( - darrsi - 08-04-14
I'd be inclined to make sure the throttle cable is adjusted correctly, starting at the bottom end first.
Re: Clutch Slip on new clutch :( - philshaq - 08-04-14
(08-04-14, 01:32 PM)Fazerider link Wrote: There's nothing wrong with using fully-synthetic oil in the FZS600, so long as it's suitable. It's just more expensive then the engine needs (though you can stretch the oil change interval). If it says motorcycle oil it should be fine. The oils with friction modifiers (usually molybdenum) are the ones to avoid, they usually brag about fuel economy on the carton.
If you have got moly on the plates, you can supposedly clean them up by dismantling and giving each a good scrub with paraffin.
Other possibilties causing slip are a mistake on assembly or perhaps the adjuster in the sprocket cover being wound in too tight, though I'm not sure how that could happen accidentally.
Thanks fazerrider. Quick question, how would winding the clutch cable too tight cause a slipping issue under load? as I'm writing this i'm thinking that it could not be fully disengaging the clutch and thus the plates are moving under load...?
I don't think there was a way to assemble incorrectly and get it to work (of a fashion). I did put the basket on wrong first time, which caused it to juts spin rather than lock in place when I tightened the spring bolts but I realised my mistake and relocated it before tightening up again...
(08-04-14, 01:41 PM)darrsi link Wrote: I'd be inclined to make sure the throttle cable is adjusted correctly, starting at the bottom end first.
Throttle cable Darrsi?
Re: Clutch Slip on new clutch :( - Fazerider - 08-04-14
(08-04-14, 01:45 PM)philshaq link Wrote: Quick question, how would winding the clutch cable too tight cause a slipping issue under load? as I'm writing this i'm thinking that it could not be fully disengaging the clutch and thus the plates are moving under load...?The adjuster on the sprocket cover acts on the pushrod (well, the bit that pushes on it) rather than the cable. So you could have plenty of slack on the cable and still have the clutch disengaged. I'd guess it'd be more likely that some bit of debris has found its way in at the clutch end than the adjuster has moved by itself.
Re: Clutch Slip on new clutch :( - His Dudeness - 08-04-14
If the cable is too tight it's the same as riding with the clucth lever slightly pulled in so it'll slip
Re: Clutch Slip on new clutch :( - darrsi - 08-04-14
Sorry, my bad, i meant clutch cable! :rolleyes