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Dedicated "off" thread - fazersharp - 31-12-13
From reading members "offs", would it be a good idea to have a dedicated mishap/off/crash thread.I think everyone can learn something from reading of others mishaps and can use the flowing posts that will appear to improve their own riding.
Simple things like, apart from any speed/condition issues perhaps people could learn that if they see any bits of crash debris on the entrance to a corner there may well be some in your path on the bend.
Another one I read. Travelling along duel carageway - all moving looks behind- all clear makes the manoeuvre to the right lane (I think the very same time as finishing the look behind) and in that time the right hand lane had banged on the anchors resulting in rider going in the back of the last car in the right hand lane.
So apart from reading the road ahead a little better I would take from that you need to make sure that you also re-look ahead. The two examples are what I hope I always do and are just quick examples to give the idea but the point is we can all learn things from other focers offs so having a dedicate "off" thread would be a learning tool for us all.
Re: Dedicated "off" thread - midden - 31-12-13
*like* pressed
Re: Dedicated "off" thread - Fazerider - 31-12-13
Good idea, but shouldn't this be in the "Suggestions" thread? :pokefun
Re: Dedicated "off" thread - fazersharp - 31-12-13
(31-12-13, 01:37 PM)Fazerider link Wrote: Good idea, but shouldn't this be in the "Suggestions" thread? :pokefunDuno ???
What do you mean to get it fixed as a "sticky"
Nothing wrong in leaving it in general to float around and be resurrected when another needs adding
Re: Dedicated "off" thread - Fazerider - 31-12-13
(31-12-13, 01:41 PM)fazersharp link Wrote: [quote author=Fazerider link=topic=11163.msg118956#msg118956 date=1388493469]Duno ???
Good idea, but shouldn't this be in the "Suggestions" thread? :pokefun
What do you mean to get it fixed as a "sticky"
Nothing wrong in leaving it in general to float around and be resurrected when another needs adding
[/quote]
Sorry, I misunderstood and thought you were suggesting it as a new topic rather than a thread (and then used the term "thread" myself). :o
As a topic, it would make it easier to contribute to... as well as making it easier to find other's contributions.
Re: Dedicated "off" thread - Liroka - 31-12-13
3 offs so far since completing the CBT in 2007.
1. 6 weeks after completing the CBT I was approaching a mini roundabout. To my right the view is blocked by a brick wall, however as it was dark I thought I'd be able to see the headlights of any oncoming traffic. I could, but it was too late to react properly when some old chav in a scrapper came flying along at 50+ (30 roads), I panicked and grabbed a fist full of brake. Over the handlebars I went, doing my best impression of Superman.
Lesson(s) learned: Slow down and be prepared to stop.
2. New Year's Eve 2009. A lovely clear morning when I left for work 15 miles away; an absolutely beautiful day for a ride. Unfortunately while I was at work it began to snow. And it snowed and snowed... By the time I left at 21:00 there was about 6 - 8" of snow. Kit on, take it slow, should be fine. It was for most of the journey but I then noticed a 3 series BMW sitting right on my backside. I tried to gesture to him so many times to overtake me but he just sat there, roughly 5 metres behind me. As we approached a junction that has red light cameras the lights started to change to red. I panicked, worrying about 3 points and the guy sitting on backside. The front wheel then went AWOL and I slid over the stop line with the bike on my leg. I tried to get out from under the bike but kept slipping on the snow so I turned to the bloke sitting in the BMW and tried to signal that I needed help. He just sat there with his arms folded. I was lucky in that a woman and her son came round the corner and they helped to get the bike off me and upright in the gutter. As soon as the road was clear the bloke in the BMW drove away. Thankfully, the woman who helped me had a friend who lived in one of the corner houses at the junction and I was able to leave my bike there for a couple of weeks. There was also a young lad in a Corsa who offered me a lift the rest of the way home.
Lesson(s) learned: Sweeping generalisation: People in 3 series BMWs are dicks! Don't ride in the snow if I don't have to, although I had to on this occasion.
3. May 2010. About a month after getting the bike back on the road following the New Year's eve spill I was heading up to a mate's for an afternoon of FIFA. I was close to his when I had to stop before turning right into a side street. Unfortunately the lad who was pulling out decided not to wait for me and just ploughed his (mate's) Volvo into the side of me. My right foot took the brunt of the hit and my left leg stopped the bike from breaking too much as it toppled over.
Lesson(s) learned: Uninsured scratters don't pay much attention to the road when they're carrying/delivering drugs for their associates.
Re: Dedicated "off" thread - fazersharp - 31-12-13
Yep --- never ride in the snow
I have noticed a few instances where your right-hand view on a roundabout approach is deliberately obscured by planted hedges or a fence with the direct intention of slowing you down - you didn't (enough) and neither did the other chap.
Not sure how the 3rd one could be delt with, other than stop early and let them go first, I know some scum-bag areas and they all drive like To**ers and if im in those areas I am even more on my guard.
Re: Dedicated "off" thread - mickvp - 31-12-13
I suppose I better add mine in here as well, just for learnings sake (I think that now I would have avoided all 3 of these "accidents" with having more knowledge of driving/road conditions etc, ujst daft in my youth).
#1 - December 2001 (CBT only on a 1979 Honda CB50) - Age 16. DAYTIME
Coming upto a 2 lane - roundabout, going straight ahead. took the left hand lane. started to work my way round the roundabout, dont do a shoulder check approaching the first junction (which Im not taking), then see a black Vectra beginning to overtake on the inside lane in my peripheral vision.
Thinking the car will be turning right, I find myself mistaken when it decides to leave at my first exit, going straight onto the "fast" lane of the exit, and taking me with it. No injuries, and only a broken indicator stalk (was only going about 10mph or so).
Lesson Learned. Always look around you and build a picture in your mind of whats going on. If necessary - take a junction you didnt want to to save your own arse!
#2 - 26th August 2002 (CBT Only on a 1989 Yamaha RXS100 - 2stroke) Age 17. DAYTIME
Leaving work. My work sits on a busy crossroads, and a lot of workplaces near my work let out at the same time. So I've made my way to the crossroads, and traffic is coming heavily from both directions. having only had the bike for 2 days, I think I can build the revs up and quickly shoot through at the first gap. So I keep the revs up, and when I see a gap, drop the clutch. bike come up onto one wheel - I panic, snap the throttle shut, hit a stank at the other side of the crossroads, and then pinball about the road from side to side before being tossed off into a heap (~30mph). Badly gashed knee, indicators etc damaged (Pride however, heavily damaged - This took place as my entire worplace of 300 guys was coming out of work :o :lol ).
Lesson learned - Don't be an idiot. Be patient, and wait for your opportinity. (I have also since started going left at the crossroad, can still get home that way but you only need to contend with one lane of busy traffic).
#3 - 15th November 2001 (CBT Only - 1989 Yamaha RXS100)Age 17. NIGHT TIME
Friday night. I'm going round to a mates house for a catch up and some banter. only a short journey (about 3-4 miles). I decide I wont need my protective gear, my jacket/gloves/helmet are fine. Trainers and plain jeans are fine ( :rolleyes ).
I get about a mile from my destination, and go round a sort of mini roundabout, which then leads onto a long straight. So Im going down the long straight (30mph area) and start heading down the straight. I see a car pull up to a junction ahead, but it stops, and I'm on the major road, so it should be giving way. I get closer. and then closer. speed still 30mph. It then decides to quickly pull out (presumably to get out before i get there). I realize there is not enough room for it to get out, so I move out (Into the Oncoming lane!) and speed up (!) anticipating the car to see the error and stop while i get safely around. The car decides what this situation needs is more power, not seeing I've moved out, which then subsequently plows right into the side of me (at this point 40-50mph). the bikes front wheel connects with the front wing of the car. the Bike goes from 45-0 in about 0.2 seconds and I begin flying.
First flying over the bonnet. Life turns slow motion for me about then. im then in mid air for about 1-2 seconds (felt like 10+seconds with the slow motion effect still going in the brain). Suddenly I realize. trainers and plain Jeans!!! This IS going to hurt. and so it does. I land on the ground, right on my left knee which sends me spinning around 8-10 times up the road. I come to a stop and the pain hits. HARD. (spent a few days in hospital off the back of this. tore my patellar tendon and broke my kneecap as well as various other cuts and bruises from the waist down. upper body and head was undamaged - imagine that :rolleyes )
it was also at this point, while in hospital that my mother decided I should call time on bikes, as I was now old enough to get a car.
Lesson learned - Biking gear is ALWAYS required. always ride to the conditions (1989 bike with small crappy headlight - didnt help myself be seen really). anticipate people pulling out (N.B. Drivers ARE out to kill you!)
so far, been back on bikes about 18 months now (on a "big" bike for 6-8 months) and only had one near miss - which I like to think I avoided being an off by using my head instead of panicking and driving round the issue rather than through it.
Re: Dedicated "off" thread - Mattsplat - 31-12-13
I dont seem to crash much these days, Ive slowed down alot, but if theres a water crossing to make, I always seem to drop it in the water :rolleyes
Re: Dedicated "off" thread - Liroka - 31-12-13
(31-12-13, 02:57 PM)fazersharp link Wrote: [size=1.35em]
Not sure how the 3rd one could be delt with, other than stop early and let them go first, I know some scum-bag areas and they all drive like To**ers and if im in those areas I am even more on my guard. [/size]
There was nothing I could do. I was just pulling away from standstill as I'd waited for an oncoming car to pass before turning into the street. The lad who hit me didn't appear to even slow down, he just pulled out and into me. I later found out he's a delivery driver for a local drug dealer so I think he simply wasn't concentrating on the road. I also think he would have hit and run were it not (thankfully) for a few other people blocking his route with their cars. Following his collision with me I later found out he'd previously served a driving ban and also wrote his own car off (rolled it) 5 days after hitting me after narrowly missing a child. Not bad for someone in their early 20s. I dread to think what his insurance must cost. :eek
Re: Dedicated "off" thread - nick crisp - 31-12-13
Excellent thread idea.
First, CB100N on L plates. Bruv on back, dog runs out in front of car that's in front of me. Car stops, I go into back of car. Wobble, keel over. Bent forks, no injuries, bugger all damage to car. Following too close behind. Extra weight of pillion not taken into account.
Second, CB100N on L plates. Mate on back, unlit country lane, going very slowly, hit ice, off. Mate was still in a plaster cast, arm, from his last off (he'd fallen asleep on his CB125 going home from night shift, and ploughed on straight over full-size roundabout). Both ok, just a few scrapes on the bike. Me and him probably weighed more than the bike. Icy night on unlit roads. Draw your own conclusions! I don't ride when it's likely to be icy these days, but lucky enough to have choice of car or bus now.
Third. YPVS 350. Bruv on similar. Hacking down a lane we both knew very well. Come round a blind bend to find an Escort van doing a 3 pointer across both lanes. Bruv spies a gap in a hedge and heads off into the field. Slow motion, all the time in the world moment. Can't follow bruv, cos I might hit him. No room to get round either side van. So aimed for lowest part and prayed. Hit about where the front wheel was, 60-ish to zero in a nano-second. Did perfect, medal-winning somersault over bars and landed on my back in a hedge. Softest landing ever, didn't even knock the wind out of me. Rolls off of hedge to see bruv getting up in the field. He's ok. Van driver is now out of vehicle, slack-jawed expression. Me and bruv burst out laughing. 2 claims against his insurance, same make and model of bike, same colour, both riders same address and same surname!
Young and foolish, going way too fast, blasé about knowing the road. Not expecting the unexpected. How we both won our insurance claims I'll never quite know - yes, he was stupid for doing that 3-pointer on a blind bend, but we weren't exactly blame-free either.
Fourth. FZ750, brand new, literally one week old and about 300 miles on the clock. Racing a GSXR750 and proddy-tuned LC down the same road as above (lesson not learned!). Beat both, took the GSXR round the outside on a long sweeper like he was standing still, was really full of myself. Got to end of road, turned left, thought, time to take it easy (had been red-lining through the gears, 300 miles on the clock). LC comes hacking past. Thought, I'm not having any of that, tore off after him again. Completely forgot about 90deg right-hander. Managed to panic-scrub most of speed, cranked in, rear wheel clipped kerb and spun the bike out from underneath me. Cracked bone in wrist, didn't notice at the time, just worried about the bike, ran over and picked it up, damage not too bad, rode it back to the dealers to order a couple of new bits to replace the freshly scraped ones.
Young and foolish, and, well....yeah.
First instalment over, more later........
So no, Christo's not the first to be young and daft!
Re: Dedicated "off" thread - Grahamm - 31-12-13
Nothing major like the above from me, thank the gods, but the most embarassing one was when I was doing an IAM Observed Ride.
I missed my Observer's turn signal, realised he wasn't behind me, so decided to do a U-turn whilst going uphill. Bike gets half way round, loses speed and falls over downhill
Fortunately no major damage. My right wrist was bruised but nothing broken apart from a bit of fairing.
Memo to self: Do NOT try to do U-turns on a hill!
I've also had a couple of near misses, mostly through overcooking left-hand bends by not reading the limit point correctly (one, just last Friday coming back from my mother's place in Bristol!) I need to resist the temptation to use the front brake (even if gently) and use a combination of rear brake and counter-steering. Of course that's easy to say after the event, but it's an automatic reaction
Re: Dedicated "off" thread - Dead Eye - 31-12-13
I've dropped my 600 once due to poor balance at the time and a semi-dead leg. Lesson to learn is that its bloody cold in February and I need more appropriate clothing. Not a real "off" though
July 2013. FZS 600
Went out with the infamous Exupnut for a ride. Rain came throwing it down but cleared up but I was still overly concerned with cornering when I shouldn't have been and didn't crank the bike over far enough and ended up target fixating on a raised embankment. Result was a shoulder impact and the bike spinning off down the road. Totalled front end pretty much. This one is a bit of an odd one (as it was so stupid from my perspective) and I could have done one of two things. One, slow down. Painfully obvious. Two, actually steer the bike - don't just stare at the corner :lol . I still have to get my head around being able to put more faith in the tyres sometimes but my 600 never gave me that much confidence I'm afraid to say. Still, that should hopefully change once its back on the road
Lesson: Ride to your own limits and don't be a stupid c#nt
Re: Dedicated "off" thread - richfzs - 31-12-13
I rode into the back of a guy on a Kawasaki while we were arriving at the Farmyard Party in about 2004. No idea what I was doing / where I was looking, but suddenly he was stopped in front of me, and I walloped him. Well technically, I suppose I slid into him, as I locked the front wheel, my mudguard went under his exhaust can and collected some minor scrapes, and my fairing knocked his indicator out of its housing, no other damage done, thank foc. The guy was very good about it!
Lesson: PAY FOCCIN ATTENTION, YOU DOZY TWAT!! :lol :lol
Re: Dedicated "off" thread - fireblake - 31-12-13
I had an incident on my FireBlade a few years back like this poor Copper. My work place was having new pipes being laid and the concrete was being relaid and the lovely labourer doing it hadn't put up any barriers. In my defence it was appalling weather and my visor was steamed up. The concrete was about 2 feet across and i was only going about 5mph so the front wheel dropped in and the bike sat on its fairing under the pipes. The concrete was up to the forks and i had to hose the brake callipers out as the finer concrete had seeped into everywhere. Even the fairing was full up around the pipes. My how i laughed.
Mickey
Re: Dedicated "off" thread - fazersharp - 31-12-13
A few tips im sure everyone knows anyway but
Never trust a green light
Never trust an indicator
Assume that they haven't seen you
That car WILL pull out
Any others ?
Also I like to find a quieter roundabout that is safe to practice going faster and faster and lower and lower and find that when its needed I have the confidence of knowing the bike can go low on that "overcooked bend" its only good enough for right handers you might say but don't forget that the roundabout will always have a left hander exit where you can practice lefts the same.
Just seen that copper picture :rollin it looks like hes doing a frank spencer "ooooh"
Re: Dedicated "off" thread - nick crisp - 31-12-13
(31-12-13, 06:17 PM)fazersharp link Wrote: A few tips im sure everyone knows anyway but
Never trust a green light
Never trust an indicator
Assume that they haven't seen you
That car WILL pull out
Any others ?
Also I like to find a quieter roundabout that is save to practice going faster and faster and lower and lower and find that when its needed I have the confidence of knowing the bike can go low on that "overcooked bend" yes its only good enough for right handers you might say but don't forget that the roundabout will always have a left hander exit where you can practice lefts the same.
Just seen that copper picture :rollin it looks like hes doing a frank spencer "ooooh"
This can lead to it's own problems.
Harlow M11 roundabout, Epping exit. On my GSXR, I figured out how to rear-wheel steer the bike on that exit. It was wide and smooth surfaced back then (and no McDonalds entrance/exit just around the bend back then either). Didn't have a crash, but got to thinking about "what ifs". E.g., what if I hi-sided into the opposite lane - a lot of trucks use that road. So packed that in.
Practicing any road until you get faster and faster is really a no-no. Sooner or later you'll overdo it and come a cropper. These kinds of antics are for the track. Do I still do it? Yes, to a degree, but I am a lot more careful generally - if anything is not quite right, I'll back off. But I still know it's not sensible. No excuses really :\
Re: Dedicated "off" thread - fazersharp - 31-12-13
Perhaps I should of said to do it within your own limits and I did say find a safe roundabout to do it. So that would be one where you have very good visibility all around for any oncoming cars, so you can stop (exit the roundabout)
Obviously you don't go faster and lower until you fall off. The idea is not to get into any antics but to just get a "feel" for how good - or bad your bike can grip. Your hero blobs on your foot rest are going to tell you thats far enough.
Tracks are all well and good but its not the same tarmac.(is it ????? )
But yes------ point taken
Re: Dedicated "off" thread - nick crisp - 31-12-13
Ok, 2nd instalment.
The big one. FZR1000 September 1991. 25 years old. Excuse if my memory is slightly hazy on this one. Had just watched Brit bike GP on tv. Warm, sunny day. Last thing I remember before the crash was zipping up leathers with the idea of cracking that road as fast as I could. (Yep, THAT road again - real bright, eh? :rolleyes ). Next thing I remember is not being able to breathe properly. Coughing and coughing, some restriction in throat. Turns out I was in ITU with a tube down my throat, having punctured one lung and collapsed the other. (they didn't want to cut a proper tracheotomy because I have a burn scar around throat and they were worried it wouldn't heal after). Surgeon's words regarding left shoulder - "obliterated" - reconstructed with prosthesis. Spiral fracture of R femur (plated). Broke 8 or 9 ribs. Punctured spleen - splenectomy carried out. Tore liver and small intestine. Complex fracture L elbow. Deep gash in lower R leg and damage to ligaments and tendons of R knee.
From what I can gather, I did indeed go for it on that road. Hit car head-on. Closing speed estimates between 120-150mph, depending on who you listen to (bit academic really). Bike is supposed to have left ground, come down, gone under car, car flips over on roof. Car supposedly doing 20mph (60 limit, but probably safe to drive between 40-50mph if driving normally).
Young and totally STUPID. Still hadn't learned, probably because I'd gotten away with it so many times before.
Despite having absolutely no memory of events (thankfully), this one DID change my attitude. I was back on a bike as soon as I was fit to ride, but much more cautious. I still ride fast (for me) today, but there's always that little voice in the back of my mind saying "what if". I tend to heed it now, and back off a little. Except for one little ride in Wales this year. Don't know why I did that. Could have just let those others go. Funny (odd). It can only have been that old thing - riding with others, blood is up, having a blast. Can't say I didn't enjoy it. Can't say it'll never happen again. And I, of all people, know how stupid it is. :\
Re: Dedicated "off" thread - fazersharp - 02-01-14
As its new year and inlight of Nick Chrisps chilling close call I would like to add mine.
Came to park up in the centre of town in a bike bay on the side of the road, im facing a big shop window -- its an estate agents and all the women inside are looking at me. I put the bike on the side stand----------------- only I hadn't put it out had I. It was just like only fools and horses when Delboy leans on the bar.
So now I am OCD about the side stand, kick it, is it out, kick it ,is it out about 10 times.