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Hesitation, surging and crap mpg. - Printable Version

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Hesitation, surging and crap mpg. - Lawrence - 23-09-13

Hi all, my hesitation problem has got significantly worse recently.  MPG has dropped (140 miles put me between E and 1/4), it still hesitates badly when opening it up and it's also started running really rough on constant throttle.  For example, get up to 5-6k in a lower gear (it's still there in high gears, just less noticeable) and you can feel it surging like it's running ok for a second, then missing, then ok etc.  After my 50 mile run home downpipes 1 + 2 were 220C and 3 + 4 were 170 so something definitely isn't right there.  It's also spitting a lot of black shite out of the exhaust which is presumably my hard earned, half burnt petrol  :'(

It's over-due a service so I want to get oil + filter, air filter, plugs changed this weekend - I changed them ages ago when it was hesitating, but not this bad and none of them had any effect - but what else can I check?  Carbs have been balanced recently and were as close as we could get them and it's had new plug caps a week ago.  I also trimmed the leads recently, couple of months back.

I would like to get a known-good set of carbs on it as I have a gut feeling that they're the problem but a) don't know much about them and b) use the bike every day so can't really afford it to be off road for any amount of time (unless I can borrow the blackbird again, maybe this is a good excuse Big Grin)

So, anyone got any idea of things I can try?  Hopefully this won't turn into another Red98-style epic....

TLBig GrinR
Bike hesitates, what's broken?

Ta very much  Big Grin

Re: Hesitation, surging and crap mpg. - Lawrence - 23-09-13

Also, CR8E or CR9E plugs?

Re: Hesitation, surging and crap mpg. - darrsi - 23-09-13

Try a quick TPS check to eliminate it.

Re: Hesitation, surging and crap mpg. - elbrownos - 23-09-13

CR8E for UK
This is the best deal I could find when I bought plugs a few weeks ago. £17.20 for 4
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1x-Arctic-Cat-2009-366-4x4-Automatic-NGK-Yellow-Box-Spark-Plug-CR8E-Genuine-/390589778571?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:GB:3160
How did you measure your downpipe temperatures?

Re: Hesitation, surging and crap mpg. - Lawrence - 23-09-13

TPS check was done when we did the carbs, was fine.

Temperatures were taken with one of these

Ordered some stuff for the weekend.  I did take #1 plug out yesterday and the ceramic was a nice brown colour, I haven't checked 3/4 but I will now...

#4 is exactly the same as #1.  It was a bit rusty round the bottom though (oo-er) so I'll check the drain holes when I put new plugs in too.

Re: Hesitation, surging and crap mpg. - darrsi - 23-09-13

Mine was fine too, then checked again recently and was out, not sure why?
It may not be your main cause but if it's set wrong it does make the bike jittery so won't help matters, so check it anyway, it only takes seconds to do.


Re: Hesitation, surging and crap mpg. - red98 - 23-09-13

yep check the colour of the plugs...nice golden brown is what you want...when the carbs were balanced did you take them off and check/clean the jets.....check air filter for condition and blockages.....that should keep you busy for a while ...

Re: Hesitation, surging and crap mpg. - darrsi - 23-09-13

Black smoke > burning fuel > bad MPG > hesitation


Seems to point towards a blocked air filter?

Re: Hesitation, surging and crap mpg. - red98 - 23-09-13

(23-09-13, 07:54 PM)darrsi link Wrote: Black smoke > burning fuel > bad MPG > hesitation


Seems to point towards a blocked air filter?






thats what iam thinking DARRSI  Wink [size=78%]........service should have been done before the balance to get the best results [/size] :\ might be worth checking again after you have serviced it  Smile [/size][size=78%] [/size]

Re: Hesitation, surging and crap mpg. - darrsi - 23-09-13

I s'pose if you balance the carbs when the fuel/air is wrong you're actually making things worse?

Re: Hesitation, surging and crap mpg. - red98 - 23-09-13

could be.....well worth checking again,even just to cross off the list  Wink

Re: Hesitation, surging and crap mpg. - Frosties - 23-09-13

I'm thinking more along the lines of coil pack(s). Less noticeable above 6k Rpm due to changing over to main jets on the carbs......just my 2p worth.

Re: Hesitation, surging and crap mpg. - darrsi - 23-09-13

Shall we just cut out 50 odd pages and say it's the regulator?  :lol

Re: Hesitation, surging and crap mpg. - red98 - 24-09-13

(23-09-13, 09:42 PM)darrsi link Wrote: Shall we just cut out 50 odd pages and say it's the regulator?  :lol


:lol  no no no no...thats just not fair  :\ ..........service items,carb balance and then parts swap....its the cheapest way  Big Grin

Re: Hesitation, surging and crap mpg. - nick crisp - 24-09-13

(24-09-13, 09:19 AM)red98 link Wrote: [quote author=darrsi link=topic=10010.msg103435#msg103435 date=1379968979]
Shall we just cut out 50 odd pages and say it's the regulator?  :lol


:lol  no no no no...thats just not fair  :\ ..........service items,carb balance and then parts swap....its the cheapest way  Big Grin
[/quote]


More like just an excuse to buy another Fazer... Wink

Re: Hesitation, surging and crap mpg. - red98 - 24-09-13

(24-09-13, 09:24 AM)nick crisp link Wrote: [quote author=red98 link=topic=10010.msg103521#msg103521 date=1380010783]
[quote author=darrsi link=topic=10010.msg103435#msg103435 date=1379968979]
Shall we just cut out 50 odd pages and say it's the regulator?  :lol


:lol  no no no no...thats just not fair  :\ ..........service items,carb balance and then parts swap....its the cheapest way  Big Grin
[/quote]


More like just an excuse to buy another Fazer... Wink
[/quote]




:lol :lol  a very good excuse,fooled swmbo  Wink .........but thats not hard  :rolleyes

Re: Hesitation, surging and crap mpg. - Lawrence - 24-09-13

(23-09-13, 09:16 PM)Frosties link Wrote: I'm thinking more along the lines of coil pack(s). Less noticeable above 6k Rpm due to changing over to main jets on the carbs......just my 2p worth.
Could be, would be worth finding a known-good set to try out.

I'll do a compression test too at the weekend, may well not have the time before then.  I have run it without an air filter to see if it was that causing the problem but it was exactly the same.  Looking at my notes the air/fuel filter were done 21k ago so probably due by now  Big Grin

Re: Hesitation, surging and crap mpg. - darrsi - 24-09-13

(24-09-13, 10:37 AM)Lawrence link Wrote: [quote author=Frosties link=topic=10010.msg103418#msg103418 date=1379967394]
I'm thinking more along the lines of coil pack(s). Less noticeable above 6k Rpm due to changing over to main jets on the carbs......just my 2p worth.
Could be, would be worth finding a known-good set to try out.

I'll do a compression test too at the weekend, may well not have the time before then.  I have run it without an air filter to see if it was that causing the problem but it was exactly the same.  Looking at my notes the air/fuel filter were done 21k ago so probably due by now  Big Grin
[/quote]

Sounds like K&N time  Wink

Re: Hesitation, surging and crap mpg. - Lawrence - 24-09-13

Part way there...

Took the coils off to check resistances, checked first one and it was ok.  Checked the caps (NGK SD05Fs that went on a few weeks back) and they're 5k ohm, which is half what Haynes reckons they should be.  Checked the originals, after digging them out of the bin, and they were all 10 ± 0.4 Kohm.  Stuck them all back on, re-assembled and it's much better than it was.  Still hesitates around 7k but pulled through it and then right up to 12k.  Shall see what the mpg is like tomorrow, hopefully it'll be better as it's costing me an extra £15-£20/week at the moment.

Oddly enough I don't remember it getting worse when I fitted them otherwise they'd have come straight back off  Confusedmash 

These are the ones I got and as it turns out they're wrong so don't buy them.

Re: Hesitation, surging and crap mpg. - darrsi - 24-09-13

(24-09-13, 07:03 PM)Lawrence link Wrote: Part way there...

Took the coils off to check resistances, checked first one and it was ok.  Checked the caps (NGK SD05Fs that went on a few weeks back) and they're 5k ohm, which is half what Haynes reckons they should be.  Checked the originals, after digging them out of the bin, and they were all 10 ± 0.4 Kohm.  Stuck them all back on, re-assembled and it's much better than it was.  Still hesitates around 7k but pulled through it and then right up to 12k.  Shall see what the mpg is like tomorrow, hopefully it'll be better as it's costing me an extra £15-£20/week at the moment.

Oddly enough I don't remember it getting worse when I fitted them otherwise they'd have come straight back off  Confusedmash 

These are the ones I got and as it turns out they're wrong so don't buy them.


Loads of us have got them, including me?