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+--- Thread: Jumping to neutral (/showthread.php?tid=64871)
Jumping to neutral - ajmes1 - 05-08-13
Went for a bimble to brid at the weekend, and started to notice that (particularly) going from 2nd to 1st it tends to 'jump' into neutral. Not a big issue but a bit annoying! It sometimes does it going up the gears too.
Just wondered if it was ought to be concerned for?!
Re: Jumping to neutral - Dead Eye - 05-08-13
Its not a good sign as it can mean that the selector fork and / or barrel is damaged. Just try to be careful with it for now but eventually it may need to have the gearbox opened up which I'm fairly certain is an engine out job
Mine has been doing it for a while and is slowly getting worse but its not overly often and as long as I make sure the changes aren't sloppy between 1st and 2nd (or 2nd to 1st) then it seems to behave
Re: Jumping to neutral - ajmes1 - 05-08-13
yeah mine calmed down and doesn't do it everytime. Sometimes i wonder if it is because i'm just changing too lightly.
The gearbox is fairly clunky, but i assumed this was fairly normal.
Re: Jumping to neutral - Dead Eye - 05-08-13
Yeah, than changes between 1st and 2nd are especially clunky
As long as it doesn't start spitting out an engaged gear then you should be fine
Re: Jumping to neutral - Deefer666 - 05-08-13
Be concerned. Its the start of a selector fork problem, get them changed now before it gets a whole lot worse and a whole lot more expensive. Its not a difficult job and its one that I have done plenty of times for customers.
Re: Jumping to neutral - Deefer666 - 05-08-13
BTW its not an engine out job although the manual or a dealer will tell you it is
Re: Jumping to neutral - Dead Eye - 05-08-13
That's interesting, can you expand at all Deefer? Its something I'll be looking in to within the next month or so
Re: Jumping to neutral - ajmes1 - 05-08-13
Similarly if it sounds like it needs doing.
Re: Jumping to neutral - ajmes1 - 05-08-13
Just to clarify, when I say jumping it kind of almost feels like a full gear position rather than the mid-way between 1st and 2nd, it does go fairly smoothly when the drive shaft is moving (kind of like a car if it's between two positions).
Is it the sort of thing I should try chasing up with the dealer that I got it from, as it's still got a bit of the warranty left on it, or are they likely to ignore the problem and say it's normal?
Not had a fazer before so can't compare it, but my dads tiger certainly sounds clunky when selecting 1/2.
Also, what sort of mileage would you expect this issue on? Mines got 24k on the clock.
Re: Jumping to neutral - Deefer666 - 05-08-13
What do you want me to clarify Deadeye? how you do the selector forks without removing the engine?
Re: Jumping to neutral - CharlieDee - 05-08-13
(05-08-13, 09:03 PM)Deefer666 link Wrote: What do you want me to clarify Deadeye? how you do the selector forks without removing the engine?
I would be interested too Deefer... for future reference!! :lol
Re: Jumping to neutral - Dead Eye - 05-08-13
Pretty much yeah, I haven't gotten in to the gearbox of any bike before. I know how it works but haven't done it myself
Re: Jumping to neutral - Deefer666 - 06-08-13
ok if you have a manual ignore it completely from here on in:
Drain oil.
remove down pipes
remove sump
remove clutch casing
remove entire clutch basket (withdraw push rod and don't lose the ball bearing that sits in the basket end)
remove oil pump
remove the gear lever
remove gear selector shaft
remove the sprung wheel that the selector drum runs on (making sure that its in neutral and taking note of how the mechanism goes back in)
remove the bolts that hold the fork shafts in place
Now the next section is easier if you have a bike bench otherwise you have to do it laying on your back
slowly withdraw the rear rod that the left and right forks run on (the forks should not come out but just make sure you steady them as the rod comes out so the don't wedge against the gears)
repeat with the front rod that holds the centre fork
now carefully remove the drum and remove the forks as the drum comes out.
make note of how the forks go in (they are marked left, right, and centre)
now clean and examine the drum and forks. normally the drum is fine but the forks especially the centre will have been worn and it will be obvious which is causing the problem, REPLACE ALL THREE, the drum can normally be reused.
Now replace the drum but dont secure it in place just yet but make sure neutral is pointing down to the six o'clock position
locate the two new rear forks then slide the rod into place guiding the forks into the correct position as you go
do the same to the front/centre fork.
refit everything inside the engine making sure that the oil pump shaft mates securely with the water pump shaft when refitted
cycle through the gears by hand before refitting the clutch casing just to make sure
refit clutch casing, sump, and pipes, fill with oil
strut around the garage in a manly way and sup tea whilst bragging to your mates/wife/kids that you are a truly great spanner monkey!
Job done!
**NOTE** This is not a novice job and I may have omitted and item or two as I am typing it from memory but that will become obvious if you attempt the task. My local Yamaha dealer still insist its an engine out and split job but I have done this for several of my customers without issue, but saying that unless I am actually doing the job I do not take responsibility for anyone using this post to fix their own bike, so if you arse it up don't blame me..... Thank you.
Re: Jumping to neutral - tony22 - 06-08-13
Wish I had changed my selector forks sooner, as I ended up damaging the dogs on second gear, meaning engine out and gearbox swap.
Re: Jumping to neutral - Dead Eye - 06-08-13
That's brilliant, thanks Deefer
I have a second engine in bits already so in theory it shouldn't be overly difficult. As I said, I haven't done anything with a gearbox before (apart from swap them on cars) but I'm always up for a new challenge. Really need to finish off grinding in the remaining valves so I can crack on with the rebuild
Re: Jumping to neutral - CharlieDee - 06-08-13
(06-08-13, 06:25 AM)Deefer666 link Wrote: ok if you have a manual ignore it completely from here on in:
Drain oil.
remove down pipes
remove sump
remove clutch casing
remove entire clutch basket (withdraw push rod and don't lose the ball bearing that sits in the basket end)
remove oil pump
remove the gear lever
remove gear selector shaft
remove the sprung wheel that the selector drum runs on (making sure that its in neutral and taking note of how the mechanism goes back in)
remove the bolts that hold the fork shafts in place
Now the next section is easier if you have a bike bench otherwise you have to do it laying on your back
slowly withdraw the rear rod that the left and right forks run on (the forks should not come out but just make sure you steady them as the rod comes out so the don't wedge against the gears)
repeat with the front rod that holds the centre fork
now carefully remove the drum and remove the forks as the drum comes out.
make note of how the forks go in (they are marked left, right, and centre)
now clean and examine the drum and forks. normally the drum is fine but the forks especially the centre will have been worn and it will be obvious which is causing the problem, REPLACE ALL THREE, the drum can normally be reused.
Now replace the drum but dont secure it in place just yet but make sure neutral is pointing down to the six o'clock position
locate the two new rear forks then slide the rod into place guiding the forks into the correct position as you go
do the same to the front/centre fork.
refit everything inside the engine making sure that the oil pump shaft mates securely with the water pump shaft when refitted
cycle through the gears by hand before refitting the clutch casing just to make sure
refit clutch casing, sump, and pipes, fill with oil
strut around the garage in a manly way and sup tea whilst bragging to your mates/wife/kids that you are a truly great spanner monkey!
Job done!
**NOTE** This is not a novice job and I may have omitted and item or two as I am typing it from memory but that will become obvious if you attempt the task. My local Yamaha dealer still insist its an engine out and split job but I have done this for several of my customers without issue, but saying that unless I am actually doing the job I do not take responsibility for anyone using this post to fix their own bike, so if you arse it up don't blame me..... Thank you.
Cheers Deefer!! I shall log that for future reference.
