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FZS600 turns over but won't spark - Printable Version

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FZS600 turns over but won't spark - togsy - 25-05-13

Hi


I've searched for answers on this but haven't come up with any, so I'm placing my first post in the hope someone might be able to help please.


My 2001 Fazer 600 has an ignition problem. I've been doing a big refurb' and got to the exciting bit of turning her over and no joy.


- Starter turns over and cranks properly.
- Air pressure coming out of exhaust.
- Fuel pump new and working.
- Turns out to be no spark at all.
- Installed new plugs, still no joy.


Following Haynes manual checked:


- the resistance of the caps (a little low at 4.58 ohms, but they max at 5 ohms new (NGK SD05F) so would this be enough to fault it?
- primary and secondary resistance of the HT coils, ok.
- resistance of the pick-up coil, ok.
- starter relay clicks ok.
- double checked fuel tap, ok.
- fuel through the pump ok.


Haynes manual suggests next problem is faulty ignition control unit (ECU black box thing under seat in rear light box). Is this likely to be it?


Any help gratefully received, thanks.


T

Re: FZS600 turns over but won't spark - Lawrence - 25-05-13

Check connectors round the CDI under the seat.  Someone had similar in the last few days and turns out there was a connector there that was unplugged.

Re: FZS600 turns over but won't spark - Kentish - 25-05-13

I would replace CDI box

Re: FZS600 turns over but won't spark - red98 - 26-05-13

hi togsy.........get posting in the intro section and tell us a bit about yourself,you will then get a lot more help  Wink we are a polite bunch of foccers that are only too happy to help  Smile


  so moan over  :rolleyes  you say you have done a "big refurb" what have you done ?

Re: FZS600 turns over but won't spark - Fazerider - 26-05-13

I'd hold off on buying a replacement ignitor unit for the moment, they're pretty reliable. Much more likely it's the wiring or connectors that is causing the problem.
Here's a link to the thread Lawrence mentioned.

Re: FZS600 turns over but won't spark - togsy - 26-05-13

Thanks for all your help. I've since checked:


- the continuity from the pick up coil to the CDI, ok.
- the continuity from the CDI to the HT colis, ok.
- the various starter cut-out circuits, ok.


So had convinced myself it was the CDI but then re-reading the thread that Fazerider/Lawrence pointed me to made me think. The wire coming from the CDI that on the wiring chart goes to the "alarm" (I don't have one any more) makes me think maybe something is amiss there. When I removed the alarm I assumed this wire didn't do anything so just terminated it. But now I'm not so sure... :'(


If all else fails I have a brand new main loom I can install but I didn't want to admit defeat on removing the alarm. Yes, you've guessed it, bike started before I removed the alarm. Oh dear.


T

Re: FZS600 turns over but won't spark - Fazerider - 26-05-13

Did the alarm make use of the existing connectors or did they clip them off and do their own thing?
If the originals are still there then it's a simple matter of making the correct links... if they're not, working out what needs to be connected is going to be fairly tricky since a) all the wires are the same colour, b) the wiring diagram leaves out information about them to make things difficult for thieves.
On the other hand, replacing the entire loom is going to be a long job.

Re: FZS600 turns over but won't spark - Stooby2 - 27-05-13

Check all the connectors in the box under the tank - have a good close look at them, especially the ones off the kill switch. Make sure they're not corroded or broken.

Re: FZS600 turns over but won't spark - togsy - 27-05-13

Thanks again for the suggestions.


The old alarm was installed by the dealer when the bike was first supplied and was hard wired in (soldered into the loom) with the connectors clipped off. I spent ages tracing the wires (as Fazerider says the wiring diagram was not much help and all the wires are the same colour to deter thieves). That's what I bought the new loom for, as a guide to what it should be like. After days of continuity testing and labelling up wires, basically it involved soldering together two loops (replicating what the connector blocks do):


1. between the fuel pump relay and the ignition; and
2. between the kick stand switch and neutral.


Everything else could just be terminated as it was things like connections to the indicator lights, the alarm LED, or power for the alarm box.


I've double checked the spare wire coming from the CDI and even on the new loom it goes nowhere. So I think this is hidden in the loom for soldering into when the alarm is installed. So I'm back to thinking that it might be the CDI? Unfortunately I have since realised that my new loom does not appear to have connector blocks, or any visible wiring, for the indicator or hazard relays. Why would that be? So a complete swap over is not on the cards anyway. And it's a big job as Fazerider says.


Next job I will check all all the connections in the box under the tank as Stooby2 suggests.


Next step is going to be trying to trace the current live. From reading the wiring diagram logic suggests:
  1. Turning on the ignition should (if none of the starter cut-off circuits are tripped) fire the fuel pump relay, giving power to the fuel pump (I can hear lots of clicking at the (new) pump for a few seconds - assume that's right? Should it be more of a "whirring" sound?). This circuit also gives one leg of power (the red/black leads) to both HT coils, via the fuel pump relay.
  2. Then on firing the starter switch the starter spins over (which it does) and should spin the alternator creating a signal from the pick up coil to the CDI.
  3. CDI should convert this into power for the orange and grey leads on the other leg of the HT coils respectively.
  4. Hey presto.
Except I have no "hey presto"!


Testing 1 should be easy enough. But for testing 2, any ideas how I check whether the coil pick up is firing a signal to the CDI? Will this read Amps or Volts, DC or AC? And do I test between the two legs of that circuit or one and earth?


To make things worse, the weather's nice and I have no functioning bike. As if that wasn't bad enough it means I have no excuse to get out of family trips... Sad


T

Re: FZS600 turns over but won't spark - togsy - 27-05-13

I think I may have found the source of the problem. I performed all the tests in chapter 9 of the Haynes manual on the fuel pump/starter cut-off relay and it failed 4 out of 6! Time to get a replacement I think.


T

Re: FZS600 turns over but won't spark - jonnydiesel - 08-06-13

(27-05-13, 01:29 PM)togsy link Wrote: I think I may have found the source of the problem. I performed all the tests in chapter 9 of the Haynes manual on the fuel pump/starter cut-off relay and it failed 4 out of 6! Time to get a replacement I think.


T
How did get on with this, i removed my alarm as it had packed up, but now it can start in gear and the neutral light stays on all the time?