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+--- Thread: EXUP woes.. (/showthread.php?tid=62219)
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EXUP woes.. - blade023 - 04-03-13
Hi again all. So I went over to a friends house as he offered to show me how to get to the EXUP valve and grease it. I'd have done it myself, but I didn't have copper grease and he did, plus it's easier with some help. Two heads and all that. We get the cover off fine, and I start with the second set of 3 bolts. They've been changed before, as the bolt heads are different sizes. One came out fine and the second was giving me a bit of trouble. While trying to ease it out I heard/felt the dreaded 'snap' of the bolt shearing. Damn. So I moved on to the third which was even more stuck, and the same thing happened.
The two bolts that sheared are the ones that hold the cable bracket in place. I've since put some spare bolt in the holes, and a plate to hold them in place, so at least the cable bracket won't move around too much, but I'd like to sort it out. The current state after having tried to drill out the bolts, is that both bolts are flush to the exhaust, one has an ez-out embedded in it (very hard metal, tough to drill) and the other has a tap and die bit in it (also very hard to drill.)
I've sort of made a mess of it I know, and while one sheared bolt is solid and shouldn't be too hard to drill out with a good bit, the other that has the tap/die bit in it is hollow part way through, with parts of the centre hole filled with said bit. This means that if a drill bit snags somewhere it will snap. So before I go and snap any more bits (already snapped 3) I wanted to look for advice.
I've seen a few methods for removing sheared bolts, such as welding a nut on, drilling with a left hand bit etc. but most of these won't work. I could try taking off the downpipes to make it easier to get to, but now I'm worried about more bolts shearing as the downpipe bolts go through a similar cheesing process to the EXUP bolts don't they?
Another thing I wanted to ask is are there any stronger bolts available that would better resist the heat from the exhaust? Maybe parmesan instead of cheddar?? This is just going to keep happening otherwise, and while it's good being able to practice drilling bolts it's not ideal. And I don't want to leave the EXUP to seize.
Re: EXUP woes.. - b1k3rdude - 04-03-13
(04-03-13, 03:27 PM)blade023 link Wrote:
- I've sort of made a mess of it I know, I've seen a few methods for removing sheared bolts, such as welding a nut on, drilling with a left hand bit etc. but most of these won't work.
- Another thing I wanted to ask is are there any stronger bolts available that would better resist the heat from the exhaust?
- Take the headers of the bike and take them to a machine/engineering shop as the best way is to use an overhead drill to get the drill bit in the exact center oif the sheared bolt.
- Yes, titainium bolts, M6x10mm, cost about £3 each. Don't corrode or seize in.
Re: EXUP woes.. - jools - 04-03-13
Hi any web site / shops that you know that sell the titainium bolts, M6x10mm, at £3 each !!
also do you need any washers for them.
jools
Re: EXUP woes.. - Lez72 - 04-03-13
I feel your pain bud but as said above, deffo take the headers off and take them to a man who can (or woman, if the politically correct brigade are watching). I know thats a bit of a pain but it will allow the bolts to be extracted without causing any more damage.
Stainless or Titanium bolts are your friends when its reassembly time
Keep your chin up. Worse things happen
P.S. Give the header bolts a good squirt of penetrating fluid too and leave for a while before trying to take them out. The last thing you need to do at this point is add to your woes.
Re: EXUP woes.. - flyboy - 04-03-13
just my 2p s worth here but be careful with titanium it very prone to galling (cheap titanium even more so ) you need to give it a good coat of a anti-seize compound on assembly .
I personally just replace the bolts with good quality steel cap heads every time I lube the valve, every year and I've never had a snapped one yet :rolleyes
Re: EXUP woes.. - blade023 - 04-03-13
Thanks for the info. Lez: that's my worry, that trying to remove the cheddar downpipe bolts would cause more trouble. I'll get some quotes tomorrow to see how much it would cost. I had a go at it this evening, and made progress; I managed to drill out the least problematic bolt and get it threaded again, so there's now 1 bolt holding the cable bracket in place. This is also the second time I've heard the term galling in reference to bolts. I'll have to google it as I don't know what it means. Except that this whole experience has been galling..
Re: EXUP woes.. - flyboy - 05-03-13
sorry
yep google it all will be explained
Re: EXUP woes.. - portboy - 05-03-13
(04-03-13, 10:53 PM)blade023 link Wrote: Thanks for the info. Lez: that's my worry, that trying to remove the cheddar downpipe bolts would cause more trouble. I'll get some quotes tomorrow to see how much it would cost. I had a go at it this evening, and made progress; I managed to drill out the least problematic bolt and get it threaded again, so there's now 1 bolt holding the cable bracket in place. This is also the second time I've heard the term galling in reference to bolts. I'll have to google it as I don't know what it means. Except that this whole experience has been galling..
Similar problem myself last week with my 61k salt encrusted mill. I have now decided to remove the exup valve after long deliberation hoping that the Ivanised carbs will equalise any mid and low range bogging. As far as removal of the header pipes, first appearances were displaying a range of different size unrecognisable well corroded nuts......... my solution was to borrow my son's Dremel and diagonally cut each nut to the studs thread and with a mangled old bent long screwdriver gently tap and split the nuts off, couple off hours job done. The headers are still solidly corroded into the Head with no sign of movement, next decision made, leave well alone, a new set of shouldered M8 nuts on the way and until there is any real reason to remove the Headers they can stay where they are . :b
Re: EXUP woes.. - ghostbiker - 05-03-13
Just my opinion but its worth getting the exup sorted right. I know if its been forgotten about it can be a problem, but once its sorted it is so easy to keep on top of and is well worth the 15 mins every few months to service.
That said LOL I think I will go do mine again now! Don't like to tempt fate.
Re: EXUP woes.. - b1k3rdude - 05-03-13
(04-03-13, 07:41 PM)jools link Wrote:
- Hi any web site / shops that you know that sell the titainium bolts, M6x10mm, at £3 each !!
- also do you need any washers for them.
- yes - ProBolt - @£3.92 each, (maybe ring to see if you can get a deal on 3 etc)
- No - the originals don't and the last 4 FZS1000s I have fitted them to have never need washers.
Re: EXUP woes.. - Topcat2006 - 05-03-13
I got a tungsten carbide drill bit from my local engineering sales company as I snapped a tap off in mine.
You could try using a centre punch to break out the easy out as being hss it is not impact resistant.....
Wrt the exhaust header bolts spray night and day with plus gas (not wd40, has to be plus gas) and then try to tighten them up instead of undoing them then undo them. Did that on mine and they all came out no problem at all. I then replaced everything in stainless....
Alternatively you could just by my bike which is in the for sale section at the moment as it has all been done..... :-)
Tom
Re: EXUP woes.. - b1k3rdude - 05-03-13
(05-03-13, 05:21 PM)Topcat2006 link Wrote: You could try using a centre punch to break out the easy out as being hss it is not impact resistant.....The problem with that is if the center punch is even the slightest bit of center, when you get to the larger drill bits you'll find you drilling partly into the headers which very hard iron/stainless steel. The end result being a over shaped hole once you get the rest of the snapped of bolt out etc.
Re: EXUP woes.. - Falcon 269 - 05-03-13
(05-03-13, 10:32 AM)portboy link Wrote: I have now decided to remove the exup valve after long deliberation hoping that the Ivanised carbs will equalise any mid and low range bogging.
No amount of carb work will cure the effects of removing/disabling the EXUP valve. I absolutely promise you this.
Fix the EXUP and feel the benefits of 'Ivanising' as they should be.
Re: EXUP woes.. - blade023 - 05-03-13
Yeah, I wouldn't just remove the exup valve, there's a good reason it's there from what I understand. I've been in to an auto machine shop type place and spoke to the guy about it. He said either to get a £10 drill bit and try drilling it out (one shot option, might not work) or taking the downpipes off and handing them to him to sort out ma hole. I think I'll end up doing that, but it will mean I'm without transport for that time, and I hate being bikeless.
Topcat: it's actually a tap that's snapped off in there, not an easy out if that makes a difference?? I'd have thought they're the same sort of material though. If it were an easy out I'd be able to drill it out as that worked with the other bolt that I tried to easy out. Smooth off, centre punch, drill. Job jobbed. Problem is the tap is fluted, so more chance of a drill bit snagging on it.
On the plus side I'm getting a new tyre on friday! Not so much fun riding on squares..
Re: EXUP woes.. - VNA - 05-03-13
You can get a bag if the stainless cap screws from screwfix or other outlets for buttons, just cut them to the desired lengths. A wee bit of copper ease and bearing in mind they are just nipped up not horsed in you'll never have a problem getting them out again.
In the meantime sounds like you are having fun. Good luck, sounds like you are getting there though.
Re: EXUP woes.. - Topcat2006 - 05-03-13
You misunderstand me about the centre punch. The idea of the centre punch is not to mark the broken hss tap but to break it into bits.
As I said hss is brittle and repeated impact from a sharp pointy device (centre punch) will break it into bits which will fall out. Been there done that.
Tom
Re: EXUP woes.. - ghostbiker - 05-03-13
Though washers are not needed I normally use ss spring washers so that you can nip the bolts up with hardly any pressure and they will stay in and easy to remove. Hence all the kits I sent out have spring washers.
Re: EXUP woes.. - b1k3rdude - 05-03-13
(05-03-13, 08:34 PM)Topcat2006 link Wrote: You misunderstand me about the centre punch. The idea of the centre punch is not to mark the broken hss tap but to break it into bits.Ah yes, good point.
Re: EXUP woes.. - blade023 - 05-03-13
well I'll pop into Blowfeld&Quingley tomorrow am and get a nice solid centrepunch and have one last go at smashing the broken bit. If that doesn't work, I'll try and take the downpipes off and take them to an engineer to get the barsteward out. Should be around £35 he said.
Re: EXUP woes.. - blade023 - 05-03-13
Do you guys think this would stand up to a good whacking:
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_206873_langId_-1_categoryId_165469
Or should I get something solid? There's a 4 piece set at hellfrauds too. B&Q don't seem to have anything suitable.