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+--- Thread: Advice please (/showthread.php?tid=59855)
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Advice please - Stuajohnson79 - 13-08-12
Hi.
Just bought my first bike after passing DAC, so I don't really know what I'm doing yet or what I need to look for! The bike is a '98, it's done 26,700 miles although just over 1000 in the last 4 years. The previous owners haven't ridden it in the last year (May '11 the tax ran out), but they've kept the servicing up apparently. I took her out for the first time on Saturday and in the 8 miles I covered to Hein Gericke, when I got back on the back 3 mins later (shop was nearly empty) I needed to bring the choke out again then it dropped the revs of completely and stalled when I tried to leave! How long does it take to warm up, and what should the idle speed be? It's about 1200 rpm on tick over and 3000ish with choke! Could it just be bad fuel in the tank, it was nearly empty when I picked it up, is it poss that I've gunked up the carbs? Or is it just a case of the noobs?
Re: Advice please - AdieR - 13-08-12
Kept the servicing up on an un-used bike?? I'm cynical on this point.
If it's stood for a while, the old fuel will be "off", ie its changed chemically over time (modern fuels do this incredibly quickly).
My advice: new oil & filter, new air filter, new fuel filter, carb cleaning and fresh fuel.
If you're not sure how to clean and set up carbs (they can be quite awkward to set), get a mechanic / garage / clued up mate to do it / show you how.
Beware, if its been left with a low level of fuel in the tank, your tank may be rusty internally (which gets dragged through fuel lines and jets). Your 1200rpm idle sounds about right (can't say for choke, mine doesn't have one).
Re: Advice please - red98 - 13-08-12
you should`nt need choke if you`ve only left the bike for three minutes....as a rule just use the choke in the morning,but saying that in the summer months you dont need to use it at all.....as always with a bike thats new to you its always worth giving it a service and a good check over just so you know what you have
Re: Advice please - Andy FZS - 14-08-12
I find mine harder to start using choke. I just slightly open throtle and push start, once running it idles at approx 1k revs and rises to 1200 revs when warm. I left mine for two weeks and although fuel pump ran for a while, once I pushed start it was running before I let go of the button. Cold weather may change this as I only bought the bike in April but I'll see.
Cheers
Andy
Re: Advice please - darrsi - 14-08-12
I use the choke in extreme cold weather, other than that you really shouldn't need it at all, especially now.
Sounds like a case of doing a general basic service to me.
Re: Advice please - Dead Eye - 14-08-12
(14-08-12, 12:02 AM)Andy FZS link Wrote: I find mine harder to start using choke. I just slightly open throtle and push start, once running it idles at approx 1k revs and rises to 1200 revs when warm. I left mine for two weeks and although fuel pump ran for a while, once I pushed start it was running before I let go of the button. Cold weather may change this as I only bought the bike in April but I'll see.
Cheers
Andy
My '99 behaves exactly like this apart from in winter. Last year it suffered quite a lot from carb freezing and was a bugger to get going - I had to leave it and get picked up at one point. Got back the next morning and it started first time, typical.
But yeah, revs seem fine and +1 to all other advice so far
Re: Advice please - darrsi - 14-08-12
@Dead Eye, my bike suffered terribly from carb icing.
SOLUTION: Buy 5 litres of 99% pure alcohol off Ebay, for about £20 delivered, and put 200ml in every full tank of fuel.
Carb. icing only happens between 0 an 5 degrees temperature by the way, not normally below or above those temperatures!
The alcohol lowers the freezing point of any moisture, and also binds with water in the tank then burns it off.
My bike has never suffered from it since, and the alcohol burns quite happily with petrol with no side effects whatsover, other than the good one!
Make sure it's 99% though and not the 70% one, as the other 30% is water, and you obviously don't want to be sticking water in the tank.
ps: The water pipes of your carb heater circuit are probably blocked too, as i know they block very easily as the pipes are just too thin, and every time mine have been checked they were blocked!
Re: Advice please - DanielT - 14-08-12
to thaw a frozen carb: easier just to hold a lighter under it surely?
Re: Advice please - Dead Eye - 14-08-12
Cheers darrsi, I'll give that a try this winter if necessary. I'm moving in a few months so will have a nice garage to keep the bike in, instead of outside with the elements.
Re: Advice please - 69oldskool - 14-08-12
(14-08-12, 04:17 PM)darrsi link Wrote: @Dead Eye, my bike suffered terribly from carb icing.
SOLUTION: Buy 5 litres of 99% pure alcohol off Ebay, for about £20 delivered, and put 200ml in every full tank of fuel.
Carb. icing only happens between 0 an 5 degrees temperature by the way, not normally below or above those temperatures!
The alcohol lowers the freezing point of any moisture, and also binds with water in the tank then burns it off.
My bike has never suffered from it since, and the alcohol burns quite happily with petrol with no side effects whatsover, other than the good one!
Make sure it's 99% though and not the 70% one, as the other 30% is water, and you obviously don't want to be sticking water in the tank.
ps: The water pipes of your carb heater circuit are probably blocked too, as i know they block very easily as the pipes are just too thin, and every time mine have been checked they were blocked!
I'm pretty sure they put alcohol (5-10%??)in unleaded fuel these days as standard. And not everyone's happy about this apparently.
So, not sure i'd want to be adding any more personally, but each to their own i guess.
Ps. never use my choke either unless its a cold day.
Re: Advice please - darrsi - 14-08-12
It's actually the weather itself that causes it, when the bike's moving, normal advice is to try and keep it ticking over when stationary and the engine heat will melt the ice, but that takes about 20 minutes and can then happen again down the road.
Mine used to start running like a tractor exactly one mile up the road, then i did a bit of research on the subject and found out this tip.
If your bike is prone to it then it will much more than likely happen again, but at least you know the symptoms.
But the alcohol definitely cures it.
If you ever get stopped by the old bill and they say they can smell alcohol just say "Sorry officer, but my bike has a drink problem!" :lol
Re: Advice please - darrsi - 14-08-12
@69oldskool, who exactly would be unhappy about putting alcohol in fuel ??? I'm talking about fixing a very bad problem, so if it works, do it........
@DanielT, that's how to make a bomb........a lighter under a petrol source, hmmmmm........ :rolleyes
Re: Advice please - 69oldskool - 14-08-12
A web search on subject should throw up some food for thought.
If i remember correctly~ in brief:not all engines take kindly to alcoholic content(maybe Fazers do?
) & the alcohol can act as a moisture trap in your tank,for Mr rust monster to feed on,that's unless you run your tank nearly dry between fill ups.
Re: Re: Advice please - DanielT - 14-08-12
(14-08-12, 05:04 PM)darrsi link Wrote: @DanielT, that's how to make a bomb........a lighter under a petrol source, hmmmmm........ :rolleyesI was hoping it'd be obvious as a joke. Just remembered Del Boy checking for a fuel leak with a lighter in the Batman episode
Re: Advice please - darrsi - 14-08-12
I'm not one to do things on a complete whim, i did a load of research on the subject after the first time of carb icing, 4 winters ago.
You can buy a Silkolene fuel additive which is about £15 for 1 litre these days, and they suggest putting a few capfuls in, but it simply didn't do the job.
The worst thing about buying Isopropyl Alcohol is that it's £10.80 for 5 litres, but £8.50 for delivery, but i don't know anywhere you can buy in that amount over the counter?
As i said earlier, alcohol binds with water, and it then burns as fuel, so i'm not sure about your moisture trap, 'cos it will actually get rid of water from your tank? :rolleyes
You put in 1% per full tank, so in my case 200ml per 20 litre tank.
Re: Advice please - Fazerider - 15-08-12
Both arguments about ethanol are correct. It is hygroscopic and absorbs any existing water in your tank. The problem comes with long storage, it keeps on absorbing moisture from the atmosphere and eventually reaches the point where the ethanol-water mixture is too wet to stay mixed with the main components of petrol... at which point it precipitates out.
So frequent use of your bike should keep the problem at bay. Also filling up from empty rather than topping up often with a fiver's worth will mean the fuel is fresh rather than a blend of fresh and stuff that's been in there for months.
If you're intending to store the bike, you've a choice of brimming the tank in the hope that the amount of water absorbed won't reach a critical concentration over the period, or storing it with as dry a tank as possible and then filling with fresh fuel to dilute the nasties before attempting to start it.
Re: Advice please - darrsi - 15-08-12
I beg to differ about the frequent use of bike and carb icing, i'm on the bike 6 days a week and never let the fuel go under a third of a tank, normally half actually, and it's also garaged at night. I think if your bike is prone to carb icing then you're just one of the unlucky ones!
I was the one standing next to my bike at the roadside while it was sounding like the Crazy Frog smoking a fag, scratching my head wondering what to do next? :rolleyes
So the fact that feeding my bike booze has sorted it out with no issues whatsoever for the last 4 winters is good enough evidence for me!
Re: Advice please - Fazerider - 15-08-12
Darrsi, the sentences "So frequent use of your bike should keep the problem at bay. Also filling up from empty rather than topping up often with a fiver's worth will mean the fuel is fresh rather than a blend of fresh and stuff that's been in there for months." were meant to be read together. If you're putting half a dozen litres in at a time the percentage of old fuel in there is far higher than if you wait until you can fit 18 litres in.
By "the problem" I was referring to the phase separation of the fuel, rather than carb icing. The only time I've experienced that on the Fazer has been when the pipes carrying the hot coolant round the carbs have blocked. If your heating circuit is OK and you can only avoid icing problems by dosing the tank with pure ethanol then I wonder if more than just atmospheric moisture is the problem. Perhaps the filler cap drain is allowing water into the tank rather than piping it safely away?
Anyway, the OP's problems are not likely to be caused by icing in this weather, AdieR hit the nail on the head when he suggested it's probably trying to run on something that's more akin to gritty beer than petrol. :lol
Re: Advice please - noggythenog - 15-08-12
I must point out that the use of alcohol has helped me out on many a cold night.......
Nowt to do wi bikes though mind.
It is simply a miracle cure for everything........
Also i run faster after alcohol so maybe it applies to bikes also :b
Or maybe theyll just pick fights with sports bikes!!! :evil
Re: Advice please - noggythenog - 15-08-12
On a more sensible note stua, one novice to another, i got a low mileage 01 plate,
I always start her up on full choke first thing in the morning, just til she fires up then i instantly start gradually reducing the choke to zero over the space of about 10 to 15 seconds, she then ticks over fine and any subsequent starts of the day i just use the standard no choke, starter button and bit o throttle,
I wouldnt have thought it was down to you coz i reckon the fazer is quite difficult to stall compared to the bikes ive learnt on,
Maybe find some biker veteran friend, dont tell him whats up, ask him to start it up.
Anyway just coming in from a different angle from the old alcohol discussion