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+--- Thread: BREXIT (/showthread.php?tid=80202)
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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - mtread - 04-11-18
You are right, some of the consequences won't be realised for years, but some are already. As Bretty has said, the devaluation of the £ is already leading to job losses.
And yes we will stand or fall on our own merits. Isn't that exactly what the SNP in Scotland wants to do?
Incidentally we are already arranging to transfer EU laws into UK legislation. So perhaps we won't be quite so independent after all
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - nick crisp - 04-11-18
(04-11-18, 01:37 AM)mtread link Wrote: The only uncertainty about Brexit is that there is no certainty. Will somebody please tell me what they want :'(
The only reason you don't understand what Brexiteers want is because you ask the questions but are not prepared to listen to the answers. Plenty have virtually spelled it out for you in this very thread. You are not interested in what Brexiteers want, only in what you perceive you can get for yourself within the EU.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - nick crisp - 04-11-18
(04-11-18, 01:01 PM)mtread link Wrote: You are right, some of the consequences won't be realised for years, but some are already. As Bretty has said, the devaluation of the £ is already leading to job losses.
And for you, the short term is more important than the long term. Fair enough.
Quote:And yes we will stand or fall on our own merits. Isn't that exactly what the SNP in Scotland wants to do?
And now you have proved that you don't listen to anyone who doesn't share your view. Did I not just talk about the dilemma Scottish Nationalists will find themselves in because they want to remain in the EU? And it is well to remember that not all Scots support the SNP, nor are all Scots Remainers.
Quote:Incidentally we are already arranging to transfer EU laws into UK legislation. So perhaps we won't be quite so independent after all
Transitional, and will retain those that continue to work in our interests. If not, then I suspect there will be trouble.
Good grief, is it that you are that hard of understanding? At least I understand why Remainers wish to stay in the EU. I just don't agree with them on a number of things (I agree on others).
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - YamFazFan - 04-11-18
Sublime
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - YamFazFan - 04-11-18
Did anyone else see Andrew Marr interviewing Arron Banks on his BBC1 show this morning?.
Crickey Marr worked himself up into a tizzy!. I just wanted to tell him to calm down and relax a bit like Banks.
I don't think it can do anyone any good to get that worked up over it all :eek
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - nick crisp - 04-11-18
(04-11-18, 01:40 PM)YamFazFan link Wrote: Did anyone else see Andrew Marr interviewing Arron Banks on his BBC1 show this morning?.
Crickey Marr worked himself up into a tizzy!. I just wanted to tell him to calm down and relax a bit like Banks.
I don't think it can do anyone any good to get that worked up over it all :eek
I didn't see it, but Marr used to have my respect as a journalist (and his recent series on The History of the World was excellent). If he is going that way too - and just after we got rid of that idiot Evan Davies from Newsnight, leaving only Emily Meritless to go - then I despair of the BBC. Although many did years ago.
Still, they still have Mark Urban, ex-Army tank officer, who is adopting more responsibility for presenting lately. Perhaps with his background, he'll be a bit more non-partisan, less "OMG!!!!!!" emotional (and he has written some good books on military history and presented a good documentary on tank warfare in WW2 too).
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - mtread - 04-11-18
Quote: The only reason you don't understand what Brexiteers want is because you ask the questions but are not prepared to listen to the answers. Plenty have virtually spelled it out for you in this very thread. You are not interested in what Brexiteers want, only in what you perceive you can get for yourself withinThat's crap. At the beginning I asked two straightforward questions. 1. What should our future trading relationship be with the EU. 2. What should be done about the Irish Border. Nobody has answered either of those. Perhaps it's because the answers are embarrassing. All Brexiteers do is say 'We won, on repeat until red in the face'
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - nick crisp - 04-11-18
(04-11-18, 08:03 AM)Slaninar link Wrote: I think there's no need to worry about this. Propaganda will get the majority to vote in whichever way suits the big capital best - people are easily manipulated and media is a very powerful tool.
Call me a cynic (YOU'RE A CYNIC! :lol ), but what I see happening right now, is that businessmen, and especially the big corporations are fighting tooth and nail against Brexit because it does not seem in their interests. But then, they do not think about the interests of anyone but themselves and their shareholders, as Bretty is finding out. They have very carefully been manipulating their workforce, threatening them with redundancy if you don't back their side. But will your wages rise significantly if you back them? No, they won't. But the top fat cats will get richer still off your backs, that much you can guarantee. If you only care about those who get rich off the backs of everyone else, continue to campaign for the annulification of the referendum result. But if you care about normal, everyday people, back Brexit!
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - nick crisp - 04-11-18
(04-11-18, 02:18 PM)mtread link Wrote:Quote: The only reason you don't understand what Brexiteers want is because you ask the questions but are not prepared to listen to the answers. Plenty have virtually spelled it out for you in this very thread. You are not interested in what Brexiteers want, only in what you perceive you can get for yourself withinThat's crap. At the beginning I asked two straightforward questions. 1. What should our future trading relationship be with the EU. 2. What should be done about the Irish Border. Nobody has answered either of those. Perhaps it's because the answers are embarrassing. All Brexiteers do is say 'We won, on repeat until red in the face'
Simple. Trading should carry on as normal.
N.I. should be handed over to the EU, lock, stock, and Armalite (oops, bit too cynical there! :lol ) barrel.
HTH.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - YamFazFan - 04-11-18
(04-11-18, 01:55 PM)Hedgetrimmer link Wrote: [quote author=YamFazFan link=topic=24678.msg286398#msg286398 date=1541335256]
Did anyone else see Andrew Marr interviewing Arron Banks on his BBC1 show this morning?.
Crickey Marr worked himself up into a tizzy!. I just wanted to tell him to calm down and relax a bit like Banks.
I don't think it can do anyone any good to get that worked up over it all :eek
I didn't see it, but Marr used to have my respect as a journalist (and his recent series on The History of the World was excellent). If he is going that way too - and just after we got rid of that idiot Evan Davies from Newsnight, leaving only Emily Meritless to go - then I despair of the BBC. Although many did years ago.
Still, they still have Mark Urban, ex-Army tank officer, who is adopting more responsibility for presenting lately. Perhaps with his background, he'll be a bit more non-partisan, less "OMG!!!!!!" emotional (and he has written some good books on military history and presented a good documentary on tank warfare in WW2 too).
[/quote]
I think every presenter of BBC news/current affairs/debate programmes should be impartial and all pannelists should be given equal time.
I've heard a rumour that Victoria Derbyshire is being mooted as the replacement host when David Dimbleby retires from 'Question Time' soon. That'l be the last time I tune into that show if there's any truth in that rumour :lol
I find some of the 'topical comedy show's' unwatchable/listenable now. 'Have I Got News For You' on BBC1 and 'The News Quiz' on Radio4 are a couple of good examples. The mickey taking should be split 50/50 between left and right. Goodness knows what the figure for The News Quiz is. Must be something like 90/10!. You really don't need me to tell you which way that's split do you? :lol . It makes them boring IMHO :z
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - nick crisp - 04-11-18
You should try watching Ch4 news if you like a good comedy. Jon "High'n'Mighty' Snow is hilarious!
My view is simple. If you are going to invite a guest on to speak, then let them speak. If you just want to shout them down, don't be so rude and arrogant as to invite them on in the first place. And if you want to be impartial, invite on those you may not agree with as well as those you do, however disreputable they may be, if they are making the news in a significant way.
If you want to air a BBC (or whoever) opinions program, then it should be called just that, not thinly disguised as being an impartial (what a hoot!) news program.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - mtread - 04-11-18
Quote: Simple. Trading should carry on as normal.N.I. should be handed over to the EU, lock, stock, and Armalite (oops, bit too cynical there! ) barrel.
Thank you...
Two small problemettes. 1. 'As normal' means tariff free and control free. We would have to join a Customs Union with the EU, and for that we would have to pay and take rules from them. It's called EFTA. Some Brexiteers don't like that
2. It all kicks off again, including bombing the UK (possibly by both sides)
Glad we've got that sorted....
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - mtread - 04-11-18
I've heard that Arron Banks' next interview is going to be broadcast on Wormwood Scrubs radio :lol
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - YamFazFan - 04-11-18
(04-11-18, 03:26 PM)Hedgetrimmer link Wrote: You should try watching Ch4 news if you like a good comedy. Jon "High'n'Mighty' Snow is hilarious!I agree, but with a small caveat...sometimes the interviewer has no choice but to interupt because, and this applies almost exclusively to politicians, often the person being interviewed will keep deliberately drifting off-topic in order to avoid answering the actual question.
My view is simple. If you are going to invite a guest on to speak, then let them speak. If you just want to shout them down, don't be so rude and arrogant as to invite them on in the first place. And if you want to be impartial, invite on those you may not agree with as well as those you do, however disreputable they may be, if they are making the news in a significant way.
If you want to air a BBC (or whoever) opinions program, then it should be called just that, not thinly disguised as being an impartial (what a hoot!) news program.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - YamFazFan - 04-11-18
(04-11-18, 03:33 PM)mtread link Wrote: I've heard that Arron Banks' next interview is going to be broadcast on Wormwood Scrubs radio :lol
Who told you that?. Andrew Marr? :lol
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - nick crisp - 04-11-18
(04-11-18, 03:27 PM)mtread link Wrote:Quote: Simple. Trading should carry on as normal.N.I. should be handed over to the EU, lock, stock, and Armalite (oops, bit too cynical there! ) barrel.
Thank you...
1. 'As normal' means tariff free and control free. We would have to join a Customs Union with the EU, and for that we would have to pay and take rules from them. It's called EFTA. Some Brexiteers don't like that
Why? In practical terms?
Quote:2. It all kicks off again, including bombing the UK (possibly by both sides)
Glad we've got that sorted....
You are saying we should allow ourselves to be held to ransom by such people who would resort to terrorism.
Plenty would say it never ended. Violent sectarianism is still a fact there, and it has been reported it is on the rise again anyway.
The people of N.I. voted to remain in the EU. Let them, I say. Then the EU can be the ones who deal with all that sectarian nonsense. Not to mention N.I. is a net drain on the UK economy. Nothing-but-nothing-but win!
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - mtread - 04-11-18
Quote:Who told you that?. Andrew Marr?
No, Crapper of the Yard
https://news.sky.com/story/national-crime-agency-launches-investigation-into-arron-banks-11541786
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - mtread - 04-11-18
Quote: Why? In practical terms?
Because it takes two to agree a deal, and the EU will insist on conditions. They already do for Norway and Switzerland.
Quote:[/size]You are saying we should allow ourselves to be held to ransom by such people who would resort to terrorism.Plenty would say it never ended. Violent sectarianism is still a fact there, and it has been reported it is on the rise again anyway.
The people of N.I. voted to remain in the EU. Let them, I say. Then the EU can be the ones who deal with all that sectarian nonsense. Not to mention N.I. is a net drain on the UK economy. Nothing-but-nothing-but win!
You and I are both old enough to remember what it was like before the Good Friday Agreement. Yes it still happens but it's nowhere near as bad now. If NI stays in the EU then the border is between NI and GB and the loyalists kick off. If it's between NI and Eire, then the Republicans kick off. A no win situation.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - nick crisp - 04-11-18
(04-11-18, 03:58 PM)mtread link Wrote:Quote: Why? In practical terms?
Because it takes two to agree a deal, and the EU will insist on conditions. They already do for Norway and Switzerland.
And there you have immediately kowtowed to them.
I asked for an explanation in practical terms, and got one in political terms. Once again showing that politics merely gets in the way of trade.
We must have the courage of our convictions and insist on our own conditions. Or it's No Deal.
The point is to negotiate a deal, not have one dictated. That is the very reason Brexiteers want out of that non-democratic shambles.
Quote:
You and I are both old enough to remember what it was like before the Good Friday Agreement. Yes it still happens but it's nowhere near as bad now. If NI stays in the EU then the border is between NI and GB and the loyalists kick off. If it's between NI and Eire, then the Republicans kick off. A no win situation.
Whichever way this goes, N.I. will kick off again. Sooner or later, it would even if the referendum had never happened. Sad, but alas, that is the mentality we are dealing with, as is evidenced with the current resurgence of sectarianist views within those communities. We must surgically remove the cancer, and the EU have kindly offered to do it for us.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - YamFazFan - 04-11-18
(04-11-18, 03:49 PM)mtread link Wrote:Quote:Who told you that?. Andrew Marr?
No, Crapper of the Yard
https://news.sky.com/story/national-crime-agency-launches-investigation-into-arron-banks-11541786
I'm not suggesting you think this, but there's a common misconception that they were the official leave campaign party. They weren't of course. That was the Johnson/Gove fronted 'Vote Leave'.
We'll just have to wait and see what the outcome of the NCA investigation into Arron Banks is. I wouldn't like to make a prediction. Just don't know.
But I trust that if he's exonerated then the Reamainers are going to accept that result :lol